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Christian J
https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/06/linu...pose_inclusive/

QUOTE
Words to be avoided include "slave", with suggested substitutions such as secondary, subordinate, replica or follower, and "blacklist", for which the replacements could be blocklist or denylist.

The proposal also noted that "non-inclusive terminology" has a "distracting effect" and "injures developer efficiency."

And here I thought it's Orwellian newspeak that has a distracting effect and injures developer efficiency.
pandy
biggrin.gif

Now I got this sudden urge to make myself some negerbollar. tongue.gif
(That really can't be translated because then it really becomes offensive.)
Darin McGrew
Several years ago, Jenkins renamed "slaves" as "build agents" (or just "agents"). Now, I think they're using the term "node" instead.

But they kept the term "master" because none of the suggested politically correct replacements had the same meaning.
pandy
At least master and slave is immediately understood...

When I was around 20 I became obsessed with Agatha Christie. Not because I thought she was especially good. I just realized I had read a lot of her books and decided to read all, in English. I even own all of them. 67 IIRC. Anyway, one day I discovered what I thought was a book I didn't already have in the book shop. I bought it but soon realized I had already read it. It was Ten Little Niggers but a US edition renamed Ten Little Indians. I still don't understand in what way that is better. And the first book in Stieg Larssons Millennium suite is called Men who hate women in original but the English edition was renamed The girl with the dragon tattoo, for PC reasons I've read. Don't understand that either, why the original title is offensive.

So you won't think I only bash American renaming, we have a lot of that too. I'll explain the negerboll thing. It's a sweat, easy to make yourself but can also be bought. It's a ball made from a batter of oat meal, butter, cocoa and sugar. Sure you have it too. And yes, the word means n ball. But "ball" isn't ambiguous in Swedish. Since the things now appropriately renamed chocolate balls were called n balls most of my life I have a hard time learning their PC name and people can get very upset by that. We also have negerkyssar (negro kisses). A flat mint with a little dollop of chocolate in the middle. I don't know if they have also been renamed to something more PC. Probably.

It's all very tiresome. What about your Eskimo pies BTW? Still around or called something else?
Christian J
The more you read about it, the more questionable it sounds. According to Slate it was black activist W.E.B. Du Bois that began advocating the word "Negro" in the 1920s. From then on, Negro was the word of choice by black leaders as diverse as Marcus Garvey and Martin Luther King. Apparently it wasn't until 1967 or so that Stokely Carmichael (founder of the Black Power movement) started propagating for the word "Black" instead, but initially the new word was mostly adopted by the media, and only became the preference of a majority of black Americans in 1974. Not a loaded word at all, in other words.

Also note that not even today, all black people share the same views about this. I for one have met a few black Africans that insist on using the word "negerboll", much to the consternation of white Swedish progressives.

I think the real reason certain people are so eager to harass others with nonsense like this is because of the manipulative power it gives them.
pandy
Once when I had promised the kids in my house to make them chocolate balls and took them out in the garden where the kids where playing, I couldn't resist offering another neighbour's American girlfriend one, in English, using their original name. She didn't blink while I was red all over on the inside. Not because of the N word but because of the B word, or rather the combination, was afraid I had gone to far and that she would be offended. Her boy friend found it very amusing though. biggrin.gif

Yes, I remember that the N word was something said with pride in the Martin Luther King era. I have met Sami poeple who prefer the word Lapp. It's sure hard to please everyone.

But I understand both Sami and colored people that want to keep the original words. Because I've always felt that forbidding those words is the same as saying it's something bad to be Sami or black or whatever it is. As when we couldn't say cleaning lady anymore - that just shows society looks down on cleaning ladies. A while they should be called "hygiene technicians". Jesus. I think all those words should be used, just not as smear word.

And when they try to whitewash not so pleasant phenomena by renaming them to something that sounds more positive. Like kalhygge (clearcutting). Here they should be called renewal areas for a while. Don't know what the proper word is ATM.
Christian J
Linux is just the latest software under attack by Postmodernism and Identity Politics, apparently this IETF draft has become a recent inspiration: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-knodel-terminology-02

Some quotes:

QUOTE
Racist and sexist language is rampant

the ubiquitous word “robot” is the Czech word for “slave”

The metaphorical use of white-black to connote good-evil is offensive.

Alas the author's arguments seem pretty hollow:

1. The author fails to show how "master-slave" has a racist meaning. In reality both slavery and racism can (and do) exist independently of each other. I'd say the association between slavery and racism is very US-centric (the author even quotes a passage about black minority students).

2. The author fails to show how "white-blacklist" has any association with race. The first source (The 'Bad Is Black' Effect) only mentions Americans' alleged prejudice towards skin tones --yet again the author shows a US-centric bias. The second source is an entire book by Marxist psychiatrist Frantz Fanon from 1952, which of course nobody is going to read (no quotes are provided). In any case both sources are irrelevant, since the association of the color black with evil in Western culture has nothing to do with race whatsoever, while the specific term "blacklist" was first used in an English play from 1639.
pandy
God almighty...

But surely black and white in this context have nothing to do with race? unsure.gif
CharlesEF
People like that are morons. This BS has already affected many of my favorite TV shows, like Dr. Who. The new season has completely cured me of that show. And it has nothing to do with the female lead actor.
Christian J
QUOTE(pandy @ Jul 12 2020, 11:09 PM) *

But surely black and white in this context have nothing to do with race? unsure.gif

That's identity politics, if a favored group (or their self-proclaimed "spokesperson") makes an assumption it's their interpretation and their feelings that count, not your intention or your feelings. I believe this is typical behavior of narcissists.

Darin McGrew
QUOTE
I think the real reason certain people are so eager to harass others with nonsense like this is because of the manipulative power it gives them.
This needs to be said again. If you dance to their tune, then they don't harass you. If you stop dancing to their tune, then they harass you. The word choices you've used in the past are just the excuse they use to harass you.
pandy
I've read a new one. A company has realized that 'Whitelist' and 'Blacklist' is racist and rename them 'Allowlist' and 'Blocklist'. biggrin.gif

Since people die a lot these days I've been thinking about if it's really OK to wear black at a funeral. And what about Black Friday? Surely something must be done about that!

I also think everyone should take milk in their coffee. Can't have it black. ninja.gif
Darin McGrew
QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 13 2020, 01:32 PM) *
I've read a new one. A company has realized that 'Whitelist' and 'Blacklist' is racist and rename them 'Allowlist' and 'Blocklist'. biggrin.gif
Yeah, that just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? biggrin.gif

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 13 2020, 01:32 PM) *
Since people die a lot these days I've been thinking about if it's really OK to wear black at a funeral.
There are cultures where white is the color of mourning. And I attended a funeral where tie-dye attire was requested by the family of the deceased.

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 13 2020, 01:32 PM) *
And what about Black Friday? Surely something must be done about that!
Well, if Columbus Day can be replaced with Indigenous Peoples' Day, then why can't Black Friday be replaced with African American Friday? biggrin.gif

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 13 2020, 01:32 PM) *
I also think everyone should take milk in their coffee. Can't have it black. ninja.gif
Which reminds me, "black coffee" usually means without any dairy or sugar. But sugar doesn't change the color of the coffee. So shouldn't coffee with sugar still be called "black coffee"?

And if people start putting whitewall tires on their cars, is that racist? Or is that anti-racist by avoiding the use of blackwall tires?
pandy
No way you can have your coffee with only sugar. Milk or cream in coffee must be made mandatory. ninja.gif

I just realized there is another problem. Black holes. That's HUGE! ohmy.gif
Christian J
QUOTE(Darin McGrew @ Oct 14 2020, 12:32 AM) *

There are cultures where white is the color of mourning. And I attended a funeral where tie-dye attire was requested by the family of the deceased.

Here's a funeral in Ghana where they're wearing black suits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EroOICwfD3g cool.gif
Christian J
QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 14 2020, 12:37 AM) *

Black holes.

If you're thinking of Twitter, they're at the forefront of implementing newspeak like this: https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/07/06/twi...lacklist-943637

QUOTE
The platform has also identified “grandfathered” and “dummy value” as problematic. The former will become “legacy status” and the latter “placeholder value” or “sample value.”
[...]
At Twitter, the effort to change language (and for some, the meaning) was begun by engineer Regynald Augustin after seeing “an email come through to our eng org with the line ‘automatic slave rekick.’ Seeing it was infuriating.”
[...]
Interestingly, however, Augustin’s twitter handle contains a version of the “n” word.
pandy
No. I'm thinking of space, not cyberspace.
Christian J
I know, I was joking. wacko.gif
Christian J
Mozilla is jumping on the bandwagon too:

QUOTE

Primary Password is replacing Master Password

Firefox is removing terminology from the browser that has been identified as derogatory or exclusionary. We’re listening to conversations happening within the Mozilla community and in the world at large, and are paying attention when people tell us that some terms we use in Firefox exclude and damage people.

‘Master-slave’ is a metaphor that perpetuates racism. Firefox strives for inclusion and clarity; we have no need for terms derived from harmful metaphors when we have plenty of alternatives that are more inclusive, more descriptive and non-racist. For this reason, all instances of Master Password are being replaced with Primary Password in the Firefox browsers and products.

Deprecating the term Master Password is also in accordance with the "Derogatory Language" section of the Mozilla Community Participation Guidelines.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/primar...master-password

Even assuming that "Master Password" did perpetuate racism, apparently none of them realized it until this very year...
pandy
It's something uncanny about all this. It isn't just stupid, it's also a kind of whitewashing. Yes, some of those words can/could mean something bad, but that's how it is/was.

Remember when they almost decided Astrid Lindgren movies shouldn't be allowed on TV anymore? Because they represent an outdated view on women. For example Malin cooking, washing and taking care of her siblings all the time. Yes, they do show an outdated view on women. Because that's how it was in those days! Shouldn't today's children know about that?

Or when Tintin in Congo shouldn't be allowed in libraries because Africans were depicted in a stereotypic and derogatory way? Yes, they really are depicted that way, but that wasn't unusual in the 20th (the album came 1930). Maybe we should remember that.

Next step, we can't talk about nazis. That will make what they did go away, right? rolleyes.gif
Christian J
QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 22 2020, 05:34 AM) *

It's something uncanny about all this. It isn't just stupid, it's also a kind of whitewashing.

True, what Mozilla calls "listening to conversations" actually means blindly obeying the shrillest Twitter crowds while ignoring everybody else. It does reveal a worrying lack of integrity.

QUOTE
Remember when they almost decided Astrid Lindgren movies shouldn't be allowed on TV anymore? Because they represent an outdated view on women. For example Malin cooking, washing and taking care of her siblings all the time. Yes, they do show an outdated view on women. Because that's how it was in those days! Shouldn't today's children know about that?

Can't remember those movies, but for such people history (or even reality) means nothing. It's all about forcing their views upon others.

QUOTE
Or when Tintin in Congo shouldn't be allowed in libraries because Africans were depicted in a stereotypic and derogatory way? Yes, they really are depicted that way, but that wasn't unusual in the 20th (the album came 1930). Maybe we should remember that.

I actually have that comic, I recall it pokes fun at everybody (whites included). Generally speaking I suppose some black people may feel a bit sensitive to white satire, due to Americas history of racism and many African countries' colonial history --if a black Congolese had written Tintin in Congo I suspect much fewer had objected. Of course none of that is reason to remove it from libraries (wether it should be part of the Childrens' Comics department in the library I can't say, maybe it's considered more adult literature today). I do believe that Identity Politics' encouragement of minorities to regard themselves as perpetual victims is far more damaging than any comic book. It's also completely dishonest, since the real goal is not creating "justice" but chaos. Thankfully many black people are seeing the propaganda for what it is, and that victim mentality is actually holding you back rather than empowering you.

QUOTE
Next step, we can't talk about nazis. That will make what they did go away, right? rolleyes.gif

Oh, I'd say they're more obsessed with nazis than ever, it's almost like a religion now. wacko.gif Maybe they need a neverending supply to justify their own paranoid worldview, if so the Nazi spectre won't go away anytime soon... This reminded me of https://www.vice.com/en/article/dpwamv/when...s-0000620-v22n4 --note how few American Nazis there were even back then (as opposed to today, apparently).
pandy
QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 22 2020, 07:33 PM) *

Can't remember those movies


Are you even Swedish? laugh.gif


QUOTE
I actually have that comic, I recall it pokes fun at everybody (whites included).


Yes, that's how I remember it too. But the Africans do look a little stereotypical.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tintin+in+congo&tbm=isch
But so they do in The Phantom, Guran (english?) not the least, and I haven't heard any complaints about that. Which is strange since new episodes are still produced so that could easily be changed.

QUOTE
This reminded me of https://www.vice.com/en/article/dpwamv/when...s-0000620-v22n4 --note how few American Nazis there were even back then (as opposed to today, apparently).


Whereas in Sweden there were plenty. And alas are again.
Christian J
QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 22 2020, 09:23 PM) *

Are you even Swedish? laugh.gif

Who knows? happy.gif

Actually I threw out my TV set maybe 25 years ago (good riddance), and can't remember much of what I watched even before that.

QUOTE
But the Africans do look a little stereotypical.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tintin+in+congo&tbm=isch

True. Some traditional African sculptures are even more stylized, but of course then they likely depict people of the same ethnic group as the artist (that's not to say Africans can't be racist towards other ehtnic groups, but I'm not aware of any such artworks).

QUOTE
But so they do in The Phantom, Guran (english?) not the least, and I haven't heard any complaints about that. Which is strange since new episodes are still produced so that could easily be changed.

My impression is that these outrages often strike at random targets, see for example
https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-kni...-purity-spiral/ (audio can be found here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000d70h ).

QUOTE
Whereas in Sweden there were plenty. And alas are again.

During the 1930s it's said the whole Swedish establishment was pro-Hitler (though not necessarily more educated about politics than people are today).

I don't think there are that many serious nazis today, maybe a couple of thousand? unsure.gif It's another thing that young people use rough language on Internet communites (where still possible), but I think that's more to do with trying to be edgy as a reaction to the political correctness.
pandy
I don't have a TV set either (but I do use Play services). But "Saltkråkan" is etched in my brain. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
During the 1930s it's said the whole Swedish establishment was pro-Hitler (though not necessarily more educated about politics than people are today).


Many people were, especially in the upper classes. I think I've known some. But some should maybe be forgiven. I really think people didn't know/understand what was going on in the beginning. Soviet was gnawing up Finland and was maybe seen as a greater threat. So Germany could have been seen as the savior in the beginning.

QUOTE
I don't think there are that many serious nazis today, maybe a couple of thousand? unsure.gif It's another thing that young people use rough language on Internet communites (where still possible), but I think that's more to do with trying to be edgy as a reaction to the political correctness.


Not many wear brown shirts. But not so few in the top of one of one of our largest political parties have roots in the neo-nazi movement. And not so few people have views that could be considered to be close to nazi, even if they don't actively burn the people they hate. Not yet, anyway. ohmy.gif
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