pagefile.sys Options

[pandy]

My SSD is getting a little crammed. I could of course put seldom used programs on another drive, but I went for cleaning up since I know I have a lot of debris. Then I discovered my pagefile is 11 GB which seemed enormous to me.

But I found this.
https://www.poweradmin.com/blog/paging-file...-usage-counter/
It says the pagefile should ideally be between 1.5 and 8 times the size of your physical memory. I have 16 GB RAM, so mine should be between 24 and 64 GB!

Is what they say at that page correct and should I interpret it as I have more than enough RAM for my activities and therefor have a tiny (well...) pagefile? Or does it mean the pagefile is too small and I should increase its size?

Just trying to learn how this works. I have no performance issues. I guess my most resource intensive activity is image editing. I don't play games and such. OK, I've tried an AI software (Topaz) that took incredibly long time to process an image (like 5 minutes or more), but that could have been due to me not reading the manual and not using optimal settings. I didn't like it so I gave up and uninstalled it. I do use another AI program for noise reduction and it's fast enough, matter of seconds. So apart from this one program - no issues.

[Christian J]

My SSD is getting a little crammed. I could of course put seldom used programs on another drive, but I went for cleaning up since I know I have a lot of debris. Then I discovered my pagefile is 11 GB which seemed enormous to me.

I store pictures, audio etc (that don't need the high speed of an SSD) on a HDD. Some say SSDs may lose all their data if left unpowered for a couple of years (like on an old backup PC, or external drives that are unconnected?). Maybe SSDs are also more sensitive to voltage spikes?

But I found this.
https://www.poweradmin.com/blog/paging-file...-usage-counter/
It says the pagefile should ideally be between 1.5 and 8 times the size of your physical memory. I have 16 GB RAM, so mine should be between 24 and 64 GB!

Is what they say at that page correct and should I interpret it as I have more than enough RAM for my activities and therefor have a tiny (well...) pagefile? Or does it mean the pagefile is too small and I should increase its size?

I think that page is about servers.

Here are a couple more that seem more PC-oriented:
https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-pagefile-sys-guide/
https://www.pdq.com/blog/why-is-my-pagefile-sys-so-huge/

Just trying to learn how this works. I have no performance issues. I guess my most resource intensive activity is image editing. I don't play games and such.

I recall something similar to pagefile.sys back in Windows 95, which frequently ran out of RAM and frooze, so you had to wait a couple of minutes while the HDD was merrily spinning along. That shouldn't happen in a modern PC though, 16GB RAM is good enough even for a gaming PC.

OK, I've tried an AI software (Topaz) that took incredibly long time to process an image (like 5 minutes or more), but that could have been due to me not reading the manual and not using optimal settings. I didn't like it so I gave up and uninstalled it. I do use another AI program for noise reduction and it's fast enough, matter of seconds. So apart from this one program - no issues.

I guess if the files you're working with approach your RAM size you could reserve more space in the pagefile. But I've also read that video editing benefits from multithreaded CPUs, maybe that applies to large image editing and AI as well?

[pandy]

I store pictures, audio etc (that don't need the high speed of an SSD) on a HDD. Some say SSDs may lose all their data if left unpowered for a couple of years (like on an old backup PC, or external drives that are unconnected?). Maybe SSDs are also more sensitive to voltage spikes?

So do I. I only have programs on the SSD. And whatever ends up on the desktop.

I think that page is about servers.

Maybe, I didn't notice. But does that matter?

Here are a couple more that seem more PC-oriented:
https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-pagefile-sys-guide/
https://www.pdq.com/blog/why-is-my-pagefile-sys-so-huge/

But they don't tell us much. I already knew what pagefile.sys is.

But I found this site. It says about the same as the first site. Well, the numbers are lower, but still...

Microsoft says that a PC should have a minimum Pagefile size of RAM, plus an extra 257 MB.
For the maximum, Microsoft suggests that the Pagefile size should be 3 times that of the system RAM, or 4 GB, whichever is larger.
https://www.itechtics.com/pagefile/#determi...e-in-windows-10

So I guess my pagefile is really small.

I recall something similar to pagefile.sys back in Windows 95, which frequently ran out of RAM and frooze, so you had to wait a couple of minutes while the HDD was merrily spinning along. That shouldn't happen in a modern PC though, 16GB RAM is good enough even for a gaming PC.

Never had it that bad. It was pagefile.sys back then too. Yeah, my computer was built as a gaming computer. I don't mind, even if I don't play games.

CODE

I guess if the files you're working with approach your RAM size you could reserve more space in the pagefile. But I've also read that video editing benefits from multithreaded CPUs, maybe that applies to large image editing and AI as well?

Nah, they aren't that large. Intermediate TIFFs, that are much larger than RAWs, are usually below 100 MB. I think that Topaz problem was due to processing. Their programs are monsters. I think the program itself was more than 1 GB.

I think the one I kept isn't really AI. But I guess they think it sounds good. It's made by DxO that does a lot of lens and sensor testing. So they probably have a huge database of noise patterns. I can't see the program is learning. It just sucks out the noise without destroying details, like magic. But it did so with the first image already and I can't see it has improved.

My interest for this began with that I realized I had less free space than MS recommend for Win10 which is 20 GB. Not that I noticed any sluggines, but it wasn't very much less than 20 GB, don't remember now, but a couple of GB short.

[Christian J]

Maybe, I didn't notice. But does that matter?

No idea.

Here are a couple more that seem more PC-oriented:
https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-pagefile-sys-guide/
https://www.pdq.com/blog/why-is-my-pagefile-sys-so-huge/

But they don't tell us much. I already knew what pagefile.sys is.

The first link says it's "reasonable" to delete pagefile if you have 16GB RAM:

"One scenario where it would be reasonable to delete Pagefile.sys to save disk space is if you have a lot of RAM. That way, it can store all the data it needs to keep apps running without needing to offload them. For the average Windows user, the minimum RAM size for this would be 16GB."

The second link mentions it's also used for system crash dumps:

"if you are absolutely strapped for disk space and troubleshooting system dumps isn't a concern for that device, you're probably fine with limiting the size of your page file."

Microsoft says that a PC should have a minimum Pagefile size of RAM, plus an extra 257 MB.
For the maximum, Microsoft suggests that the Pagefile size should be 3 times that of the system RAM, or 4 GB, whichever is larger.
https://www.itechtics.com/pagefile/#determi...e-in-windows-10

That page also says: "If a system has a lot of RAM that is not usually consumed, a PC might not even need a Pagefile as it would not need to vacate the RAM at all."

According to https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/cl...-page-file-size the min value is if you want a "Complete memory dump" for System crashes. For the max value it says:

"Kernel memory crash dumps require enough page file space or dedicated dump file space to accommodate the kernel mode side of virtual memory usage. If the system crashes again within four weeks of the previous crash, a Complete memory dump is selected at restart. This dump requires a page file or dedicated dump file of at least the size of physical memory (RAM) plus 1 MB for header information plus 256 MB for potential driver data to support all the potential data that is dumped from memory."

So I guess this only matters if you care about System crash memory dumps, but during normal use it's just a waste of disk space.

Never had it that bad. It was pagefile.sys back then too.

I used to open many web pages at once, so I could disconnect from dial-up and save money by reading the pages offline. Maybe that's why I ran out of RAM.

My interest for this began with that I realized I had less free space than MS recommend for Win10 which is 20 GB. Not that I noticed any sluggines, but it wasn't very much less than 20 GB, don't remember now, but a couple of GB short.

How does the System Restore work in Win10? In Vista I recall you could limit it's size, or it would just keep growing.

[pandy]

Seems stupid to not have pagefile at all. I'm surprised they say it can be deleted though. I expected that wouldn't be possible or that Windows would just create a new file.

I think System restore works as before. I've never used it.

[pandy]

BTW what you said about unused SSDs going bad is something I must google. I was contemplating buying one of those portable backup drives that don't need to be plugged into a power outlet, they take the power from the device they are connected to. If I don't remember wrong there's an SSD inside.

[Christian J]

Please post anything of interest! I'm a bit puzzled by the relaxed attitude towards this among some writers. Some may even try to debunk "strawman" scenarious, like that of an SSD losing memory after just a few weeks under high ambient temperature, while just mentioning in passing that it may lose memory after two years unplugged (which is still bad IMO).

[pandy]

If it's true they lose data if unplugged a longer time it seems stupid to use them for backup. Well, for my intentions it would work. Namely to offload photos when off grid. I don't have a laptop and don't have need for one. One can of course just buy more memory cards, but those things are so small, easy to lose or harm. But if one wants a permanent backup it can very well be lying around unplugged for year. And at least I use drives I no longer use to store stuff on like that.

[pandy]

SSDs can lose data in as little as 7 days without power

[Christian J]

If you've installed the OS on a SSD, this also means an unused old backup PC may not work at all just when you may need it (say if you main PC also broke down).

[pandy]

You are right, that's a consideration.

They say it seldom happens though. And don't laptops often have SSD nowadays? If you have a laptop not for work but just as a convenient thing to have when you travel or to take with to the summer house and so on, it can be unused for months. And I haven't heard of a laptop not starting for this reason.

Now I found this. Ir's also about servers, but again, why should that matter?
However, each rewriting cycle burns the drive out which shortens its service life
There's an interesting table on when to use which kind of disk further down the page. Server stuff, but anyway. Get the feeling that for a private desktop it's best to stick to HDD.

[Christian J]

I wonder if all data is lost at once, or just a little at the time?

If the former, maybe you could install an emergency Linux OS on a separate partition on the HDD? I recall those are able to access even Windows files on other partitions.

If the latter, maybe you could put the OS backup files on the HDD, and be able to repair the lost SSD OS files from there?

Perhaps an emergency OS can also be kept on a USB stick, but those don't last long either.

They say it seldom happens though. And don't laptops often have SSD nowadays? If you have a laptop not for work but just as a convenient thing to have when you travel or to take with to the summer house and so on, it can be unused for months. And I haven't heard of a laptop not starting for this reason.

True. And what if you buy a new old stock SSD laptop that's a couple of years old, surely its Windows install will still work?

Now I found this. Ir's also about servers, but again, why should that matter?
However, each rewriting cycle burns the drive out which shortens its service life

I recall rewriting gradually reduces the the storage capacity, but I don't think it will shorten the entire SSD lifespan (so that it suddenly breaks down), since the SSD is able to move data from damaged cells to good ones (as long as it's powered).

There's an interesting table on when to use which kind of disk further down the page. Server stuff, but anyway. Get the feeling that for a private desktop it's best to stick to HDD.

AFAIK, only the OS and games really benefit from the high speed of a SSD, so there's no real point in using a SSD for general storage. A HDD should be fast enough for text files, images, video and audio. As for unpowered archiving, maybe not even HDDs are reliable after say a decade, so maybe it's better to burn DVDs?

[pandy]

I wonder if all data is lost at once, or just a little at the time?

If the former, maybe you could install an emergency Linux OS on a separate partition on the HDD? I recall those are able to access even Windows files on other partitions.

Only SDDs tend to still be rather small (for economical reasons). Windows + the free space it needs takes a large part. If you put Linux on too and have a few large programs... I don't know if Linux can be put on another drive. Is it possible to change what drive to boot from dureing startup?

Perhaps an emergency OS can also be kept on a USB stick, but those don't last long either.

Don't they? Why? Isn't it like a memory card in there? I have never had one go bad. I think my oldest is maybe 15 years.

AFAIK, only the OS and games really benefit from the high speed of a SSD, so there's no real point in using a SSD for general storage. A HDD should be fast enough for text files, images, video and audio. As for unpowered archiving, maybe not even HDDs are reliable after say a decade, so maybe it's better to burn DVDs?

Sometimes it takes a little time to open documents on another drive, but I think that's mostly because the drive may be asleep. I can't say I notice any performance advantage either. I think the improvements I notice is due to an overall much better computer than I had before, processor, graphic card and so on. The one advantage I notice and like with the SDD is that booting up is very fast. I think I mentioned before that I use hibernation for the first time in my live. It's sweat to not have to save things when going out or going to bed and be able to just pick up where you were again.

[Christian J]

Only SDDs tend to still be rather small (for economical reasons). Windows + the free space it needs takes a large part. If you put Linux on too and have a few large programs...

No, I meant like this:

SSD - Windows OS, games and other programs.

HDD - backup OS, documents.

I don't know if Linux can be put on another drive. Is it possible to change what drive to boot from dureing startup?

Technically the Linux OS needs to be on another partition, which could be another drive. Then you must indeed set the default boot partition. I could also switch to the non-default OS by pressing some key during boot (this was with Linux Mint, don't know about others).

Don't they? Why? Isn't it like a memory card in there? I have never had one go bad. I think my oldest is maybe 15 years.

Yes maybe I exaggerated there.

Sometimes it takes a little time to open documents on another drive, but I think that's mostly because the drive may be asleep.

Why do you let it go asleep, to save electricity? I recall reading they'll last longer if constantly spinning.

I think I mentioned before that I use hibernation for the first time in my live. It's sweat to not have to save things when going out or going to bed and be able to just pick up where you were again.

I never used hibernation before, so I can't compare. Booting on my new SSD PC seemed much faster at first, then I found that the Windows 10 default was to not power off completely, but rather something of a hybrid sleep. After changing to a more thorough power off it doesn't boot quite as fast, but still much faster than before.

[pandy]

CODE

No, I meant like this:

SSD - Windows OS, games and other programs.

HDD - backup OS, documents.

And Linux on the HD too, I assume. You actually wrote that to begin with. I misread, sorry.

I don't know if Linux can be put on another drive. Is it possible to change what drive to boot from dureing startup?

Technically the Linux OS needs to be on another partition, which could be another drive. Then you must indeed set the default boot partition. I could also switch to the non-default OS by pressing some key during boot (this was with Linux Mint, don't know about others).

Yeah, I remember now. It's probably more than 10 years since i had a dual boot computer.

Why do you let it go asleep, to save electricity? I recall reading they'll last longer if constantly spinning.

Don't know. That's how it's configured automagically. I may have changed the time, don't remember. Seems a waste to always have all drives on though.

CODE

I never used hibernation before, so I can't compare. Booting on my new SSD PC seemed much faster at first, then I found that the Windows 10 default was to not power off completely, but rather something of a hybrid sleep. After changing to a more thorough power off it doesn't boot quite as fast, but still much faster than before.

If it isn't off or hibernating, what happens if you pull the plug? I guess you still had to save documents and the computer started clean, no open documents? Did it just put Windows in some kind of sleep mode but shut everything else down?

What's that setting called and where do you find it? I must find out if I have it that way too.

[Christian J]

What's that setting called and where do you find it? I must find out if I have it that way too.

I think it may have been Fast Startup: https://www.howtogeek.com/243901/the-pros-a...t-startup-mode/

[pandy]

OK, thanks. The shortcuts mentioned doesn't work for me, but I found it through the CP. Fast Stratup is NOT on. But I can't turn it on either. All those optones are grayed out. Go figure. Doesn't matter. I want it as it is.

I think booting up is very fast. I think I timed it to 9 seconds. On older computers I used to turn the computer on when I woke up and go and put a kettle on and lay the table and it was through when I came back.

[Christian J]

Now I had to increase my pagefile size to make a pesky game stop crashing (seems it needs even more than my 16GB RAM). Perhaps it's best to keep the pagefile at that size, there's certainly no lack of unoptimized games around.

[pandy]

What size did you have before and was it what Windows had configured?

[Christian J]

Just 800MB, I think. Can't remember Windows' default, but it was much higher...