How bad is Win 10? Options

[pandy]

My computer has broken down. Yeah, again. I just bought a very slightly used one with a lot better components that I would otherwise afford.


It comes with Win 10 (Pro), I think. The guy hated it himself and recommended me to install 7 or 8 instead. 7 seems the least annoying, but support ends in less than 3 years. 8 seems pretty horrid too. So maybe I should just go with 10?

I've read about the murder of the start menu, that updates are forced and that you have no control of what and when. Is it as bad as I've heard?

[CharlesEF]

I came across this https://www.tenforums.com/customization/435...ist-header.html. Seems you can define a new theme (instead of messing with the original). Hope this might help.

[pandy]

Ah! Wonderful! I'm prepared to do some work once I've got things running. BTW, I had my finger on the ban button before I saw you were the poster. My eyes is always drawn to any link first. I misread and thought it said "teenforums".

I'll continue to pick your brains, if I may.

I've already found that the Program Files (x86) folder isn't an entirely bad idea. I have, of course, installed programs in a folder named - taa-taa! - Programs as I've done since many years. And I've also heard that's a good idea to get around some annoyances with newer versions of Windows. I have this really old menu program called AppBar. I've dragged it from computer to computer and everything has worked straight off - until now. It's tiny bar with text based menus. I have everything I use often on it. Programs, folders, documents. I use to have it at the bottom. It autohides behind the taskbar. That didn't work. So I put it at the top of the screen instead. Everything worked, or so I thought. The paths that happened to be the same worked fine, but it turned out I couldn't edit the entries or add new one, got strange error messages. When I moved it to the x86 folder everything worked, even having it coexist with the taskbar. I'm so happy! It's rather cool actually. I think that little program is from before Win 95 even.

To the point. I'm trying to get rid of the annoying prompts. I realize not allowing any program to run as administrator is actually a good idea. But how do I set the programs I trust to do it? Some have it in there own Options, but that doesn't seem to take. I find this little tutorial duplicated all over the web.
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/always-run-a-pr...-in-windows-10/

Problem is I don't get a Shortcut tab when I rightclick an exe. I only have the ones in the screen cap and none of them have the setting I'm looking for. So is there another way to do this?

[Christian J]

I've already found that the Program Files (x86) folder isn't an entirely bad idea. I have, of course, installed programs in a folder named - taa-taa! - Programs as I've done since many years. And I've also heard that's a good idea to get around some annoyances with newer versions of Windows.

Probably you already know this, but I think the Programs folder is for 64 bit programs and the x86 one is for 32 bit.

You can also right-click shortcuts for older programs and make them run in compatibility mode.

I also have problems with file associations not sticking. That seems to be common. The advice is to use Settings... Default Apps and to use the Set defaults by apps option. Problem with that, apart from sounding tedious, is that hardly any of the programs I've installed so far shows up there. Basically only FF and Adobe's programs do

Below the list there should be settings based on file type, protocol and app (how I hate that word, "app" ).

[pandy]

Probably you already know this, but I think the Programs folder is for 64 bit programs and the x86 one is for 32 bit.

Yes.

You can also right-click shortcuts for older programs and make them run in compatibility mode.

That didn't help, you see. But moving the program to x86 did. So there must be a difference.

I also have problems with file associations not sticking. That seems to be common. The advice is to use Settings... Default Apps and to use the Set defaults by apps option. Problem with that, apart from sounding tedious, is that hardly any of the programs I've installed so far shows up there. Basically only FF and Adobe's programs do

Below the list there should be settings based on file type, protocol and app (how I hate that word, "app" ).

I know. But there are lots of pages about this problem, since it seems very common. The consensus is that the way I described works when other ways don't. But if the "app" isn't even listed? And why aren't they listed? Some simple programs I confess that I just dragged over, but the properly installed ones aren't there either.

Another annoyance. Setting programs to run at startup doesn't always work either. Maybe because of that UAC thing?

This will drive me nuts! Anyway, two program associations now works. Several days after I did something about it, so I don't know what did the trick. Maybe information about any changes to the system needs to be sent to MS for approval before they are okeyed.

This is going slowly. It feels like accomplishing one thing a day is more than enough.

About apps, long ago I occasionally used that word as short for application. But nowadays one comes to think of mobile apps. And "they" makes a distinction between apps and programs. So how are apps different?

[Christian J]

That didn't help, you see. But moving the program to x86 did. So there must be a difference.

I meant if the program didn't work in the x86 folder either.

The consensus is that the way I described works when other ways don't.

I didn't have too much problems with associations. Maybe a couple got lost in the beginning, not sure. Perhaps Windows updates screw things up, or maybe Windows intentionally resets them in a desperate last attempt to make you try the Edge browser?

But if the "app" isn't even listed?

Can't you use file type then? But if a program uses its own file extensions maybe you need to create such a file before the file type is recognized (just guessing).

Maybe information about any changes to the system needs to be sent to MS for approval before they are okeyed.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. You did disable all the Cloud features right? Windows Defender has a couple. Also beware of any third party antivirus programs you may use, maybe they work differently in Win10.

About apps, long ago I occasionally used that word as short for application. But nowadays one comes to think of mobile apps. And "they" makes a distinction between apps and programs. So how are apps different?

A "program" is something suspicious and complicated that you can find free on the wild web. An "app" is something safe and cool that you can buy in the app store. Seems Google and Apple started pushing the term for mobile, then it spilled over to Windows desktop as well together along with the mobile UI. Maybe Linux desktop used it earlier too, can't remember its terminology.

[pandy]

Can't you use file type then?

Point was that didn't work and when it doesn't the method where my programs don't show up is supposed to.

Of course, what I really want is that the choices made from within the program in question would stick. Every other way to do it seems cumbersome. Say, for IrfanView I want maybe 15 associations. What an ordeal do have to do them one by one. But at least some associations has started to work now. So maybe the problem will go away.

A "program" is something suspicious and complicated that you can find free on the wild web. An "app" is something safe and cool that you can buy in the app store. Seems Google and Apple started pushing the term for mobile, then it spilled over to Windows desktop as well together along with the mobile UI. Maybe Linux desktop used it earlier too, can't remember its terminology.

I'm beginning to think there's more to it. That the apps work in a different way somehow. I haven't had the strength to dig into things that isn't essencial to get this monster running yet.

I've tried to lower the UAC settings. Turning it off totally actually works. The other setting are all the same. Dimming the desktop? I don't ever see any dimming.

[Christian J]

I'm beginning to think there's more to it. That the apps work in a different way somehow. I haven't had the strength to dig into things that isn't essencial to get this monster running yet.

You mean Windows 10 apps in particular? Yes, if nothing else they might be part of the on-going migration from the old Control Panel to the new "Windows Settings". Some of the apps can't be uninstalled either.

Dimming the desktop? I don't ever see any dimming.

The Night Light? I think it only changes color temperature.

Parts of the OS is definately buggy, though. For example, I found a checkbox that once ticked it can't be unticked.

Another thing. I remember you can't see the image in my sig. It's the same for me now. Windows firewall? I run the built in security suite for now.

No it appeared once I got my new computer, no idea why. Today it suddenly stopped working again, but this time it seems to be the server.

[pandy]

Oh, OK. Then we both will see it soon maybe.

No, the dimming referred to what they talk about in the UAC CP. Sheesh, the thing looks like a webpage but text can't be copied. If you set it to the second level from the bottom it says blah blah (Do not dim my desktop) blah blah.

[Christian J]

Oh, OK. Then we both will see it soon maybe.

Seems the whole site is down. I don't even remember what ACTA(?) is about, there have been so many new ones.

ACTA is over but I like the image.

No, the dimming referred to what they talk about in the UAC CP. Sheesh, the thing looks like a webpage but text can't be copied. If you set it to the second level from the bottom it says blah blah (Do not dim my desktop) blah blah.

Oh that. When the UAC prompt is fired, the whole desktop background darkens.

I understand something like that is supposed to happen. But it doesn't. Not that I care.

Well, I'm sort of typing with very small letters now. As I think I said, I installed things outside Program Files. I've even heard that is recommended, even for Win 10. But since I discovered some old programs didn't work outside x86 I thought maybe new programs dont work properly outide their proper location either. Classic Shell was one of the first I installed and since it messes with the shell... I uninstalled it and reinstalled it properly. Things brightened up a little.

File associations seem to work now, even if not instantly. Alas UAC is the same as before.

One step in the right direction anyway. One problem with association is that Photos has grabbed some image extensions and won't let go (I've only done images and various text files so far). In Control Panel\Programs\Default Programs\Set Default Programs\Set Program Associations the extensions it has grabbed can't be unticked. Sigh.

[pandy]

Sorry, I think I wrote in your post. Lucky I quoted you.

File assocations half work. For image files it turned out Photos didn't want to let go of some types. After uninstalling Photos I can associate PNG and JPG with Irfan, but only from the Windows CP, not with Irfan settings. Sigh.

Help files can't be opened in the x86 folder. I have to pull them out. So they can't be opened from the program's menu. Is this normal?

[Christian J]

Sorry, I think I wrote in your post. Lycky I quoted you.

Win10 is taking its toll.

I understand something like that is supposed to happen. But it doesn't. Not that I care.

It's an opacity effect, first seen in Vista AFAIK. Maybe the Classic Shell prevents such things.

For image files it turned out Photos didn't want to let go of some types. After uninstalling Photos I can associate PNG and JPG with Irfan, but only from the Windows CP, not with Irfan settings. Sigh.

I can change it in the file type list without uninstalling Photos. BTW I also noticed that you can change default programs both in Control Panel and Windows Settings --wonder if both work the same, or if one is better?

Help files can't be opened in the x86 folder. I have to pull them out. So they can't be opened from the program's menu. Is this normal?

No they work for me, at least with Irfanview.

[pandy]

Sorry, I think I wrote in your post. Lycky I quoted you.

Win10 is taking its toll.

It surely is. Soon I'm tired of computers altogether. I don't think I've ever used this much time to get things working. Earlier it has been a matter of finding files and installing programs and setting things up as I want. Tiresome but kind of a work of love at the sime time. This - I don't get anywhere. Just google the same things, read the same tips and am afraid to install too much in case I have to start over. It's just boring.

I understand something like that is supposed to happen. But it doesn't. Not that I care.

It's an opacity effect, first seen in Vista AFAIK. Maybe the Classic Shell prevents such things.

Nuh. Uninstalling it didn't change a thing.

For image files it turned out Photos didn't want to let go of some types. After uninstalling Photos I can associate PNG and JPG with Irfan, but only from the Windows CP, not with Irfan settings. Sigh.

I can change it in the file type list without uninstalling Photos. BTW I also noticed that you can change default programs both in Control Panel and Windows Settings --wonder if both work the same, or if one is better?

I could too (I think) but things didn't stick. Associate file types with my text editor didn't stick earlier either but after nn numbers of reboots it did. Go figure.

Help files can't be opened in the x86 folder. I have to pull them out. So they can't be opened from the program's menu. Is this normal?

No they work for me, at least with Irfanview.

Checking... Irfan works for me too, but I have the 64 bit version.

Another funny thing. They say turning UAC off stop "native apps" from working, including the start menu. Huh, no. The start menu is still there. Oh well, one bug to be grateful for I suppose.

[Christian J]

I don't think I've ever used this much time to get things working. Earlier it has been a matter of finding files and installing programs and setting things up as I want. Tiresome but kind of a work of love at the sime time. This - I don't get anywhere. Just google the same things, read the same tips and am afraid to install too much in case I have to start over. It's just boring.

For me it was relatively painless, but maybe I haven't customized as much as you.

Nuh. Uninstalling it didn't change a thing.

It could be a driver issue as well. After I bought my new monitor, my old Vista PC sometimes started with the screen slightly darkened. Sometimes half the screen was dark. Similar things happened with the Win10 PC until remembered to install the monitor driver.

Also check that opacity is enabled in Settings > Personalization > Color. BTW there's also a setting to "Show accent color on the following surfaces" --maybe that affects those white program toolbars you got?

I could too (I think) but things didn't stick. Associate file types with my text editor didn't stick earlier either but after nn numbers of reboots it did. Go figure.

I suspect Windows updates reset some preferences. Perhaps one needs to recheck the privacy settings after every update as well.

Checking... Irfan works for me too, but I have the 64 bit version.

See if running the x86 programs in compatibility mode works.

Another funny thing. They say turning UAC off stop "native apps" from working, including the start menu.

Sounds strange. Who says that, MS?

[pandy]

I don't think I've ever used this much time to get things working. Earlier it has been a matter of finding files and installing programs and setting things up as I want. Tiresome but kind of a work of love at the sime time. This - I don't get anywhere. Just google the same things, read the same tips and am afraid to install too much in case I have to start over. It's just boring.

For me it was relatively painless, but maybe I haven't customized as much as you.

I've just fiddled with colors. It's the other things that is the main problem. Associations, drag and drop, that Run as Administrator doesn't work so I have to turn UAC off...

Nuh. Uninstalling it didn't change a thing.

It could be a driver issue as well. After I bought my new monitor, my old Vista PC sometimes started with the screen slightly darkened. Sometimes half the screen was dark. Similar things happened with the Win10 PC until remembered to install the monitor driver.

But shouldn't screen drivers come with Windows updates? And could they affect the things I have problems with? I don't know what other drivers it could be.

Also check that opacity is enabled in Settings > Personalization > Color. BTW there's also a setting to "Show accent color on the following surfaces" --maybe that affects those white program toolbars you got?

I saw those options before but didn't understand what they do. I'll have a new look.

I could too (I think) but things didn't stick. Associate file types with my text editor didn't stick earlier either but after nn numbers of reboots it did. Go figure.

I suspect Windows updates reset some preferences. Perhaps one needs to recheck the privacy settings after every update as well.

Well, text files (I mean that in a wide sense) have disassociated themselves again. Some still have the Notetab icon and nothing happens when clicking them. Some, for example .txt, are back to Notepad.

Checking... Irfan works for me too, but I have the 64 bit version.
See if running the x86 programs in compatibility mode works.

Should that be need it when they are in the x86 folder? But I think I've ticked that box too, for the troublesome ones anyway.

Another funny thing. They say turning UAC off stop "native apps" from working, including the start menu.

Sounds strange. Who says that, MS?

Yes. MS and everyone else. That's one of the most common questions. People have the same problem as I do and when they turn UAC of they lose the start menu. But maybe that's something MS has fixed later.

[Christian J]

But shouldn't screen drivers come with Windows updates?

No idea. The first two weeks my new PC would sometimes display a band of artifacts on the screen before Win10 started, then the PC rebooted automatically. At first I suspected some hardware glitch. It ended once I installed the monitor's own driver, but a Win update was also installed at the same time, so I'm not sure what fixed it.

This also reminds me that Win10 didn't allow my Samsung scanner driver for "security reasons".

Well, text files (I mean that in a wide sense) have disassociated themselves again.

You mean it didn't happen because of an update? What else could have caused it? A reboot? A "housekeeping" process?

Some still have the Notetab icon and nothing happens when clicking them.

Not even a prompt to choose program? I always got that.

Should that be need it when they are in the x86 folder? But I think I've ticked that box too, for the troublesome ones anyway.

I got one program working by clicking the button "Run compatibility troubleshooter" (which downloaded an older version of .NET Framework), but in that case the help files were not the problem.

BTW the compatibility dropdown only lets you choose from Vista and newer Win OS, don't know what that means for even older programs.

Yes. MS and everyone else. That's one of the most common questions. People have the same problem as I do and when they turn UAC of they lose the start menu. But maybe that's something MS has fixed later.

Aha, you enabled the Administrator account? I haven't felt the need for that yet. True, now I read that those modern apps need UAC to work, apparently there's a fix: https://winaero.com/blog/fix-apps-and-start...-in-windows-10/

[pandy]

Well, text files (I mean that in a wide sense) have disassociated themselves again.

You mean it didn't happen because of an update? What else could have caused it? A reboot? A "housekeeping" process?

I don't know. I haven't been notified about any update, but I don't know if I'm supposed to be or if they happen in the background.

Some still have the Notetab icon and nothing happens when clicking them.

Not even a prompt to choose program? I always got that.

No. Dead.

Should that be needed it when they are in the x86 folder? But I think I've ticked that box too, for the troublesome ones anyway.

I got one program working by clicking the button "Run compatibility troubleshooter" (which downloaded an older version of .NET Framework), but in that case the help files were not the problem.

OK. I think I ran that once but didn't get anything out of it.

BTW the compatibility dropdown only lets you choose from Vista and newer Win OS, don't know what that means for even older programs.

For once my fucked up installation is better than yours! I have all of them back to Win95.

Aha, you enabled the Administrator account? I haven't felt the need for that yet. True, now I read that those modern apps need UAC to work, apparently there's a fix: https://winaero.com/blog/fix-apps-and-start...-in-windows-10/

Yes. I even created a second Admin account in case something was wrong with the first. Didn't help. But UAC is off and I still have the start menu. Nothing is as described with this.

New for today - all extensions are hidden. Not only "known" ones. I have invented some of my own. I'm starting to feel like saying censored words.

[Christian J]

I don't know. I haven't been notified about any update, but I don't know if I'm supposed to be or if they happen in the background.

I think I always get notifications in the Action Center, otherwise they should be listed in the Update History. The last Windows update was on 10/10, I installed it yesterday.

No. Dead.

No response from right-clicking either? Have you looked for registry errors?

For once my fucked up installation is better than yours! I have all of them back to Win95.

It seems to depend on how old the program is, now I found one with Win95 too.

Yes. I even created a second Admin account in case something was wrong with the first. Didn't help. But UAC is off and I still have the start menu. Nothing is as described with this.

New for today - all extensions are hidden. Not only "known" ones. I have invented some of my own. I'm starting to feel like saying censored words.

Something does seem broken. You might check the registry, SSD, RAM etc for errors. BTW you did hear about CCleaner being compromised a few days ago?