character set/encoding and its specification |
character set/encoding and its specification |
Peter Evans |
Aug 29 2006, 03:50 AM
Post
#1
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 24-August 06 Member No.: 13 |
In a sandbox message, I posted some Japanese. I'll try it again:
いま日本語で書いております。 Chances are that you, dear reader, can't read Japanese. All the same, you're probably more or less aware of what Japanese looks like: a mixture of complex, angular characters (like Chinese, and indeed from Japanese), and simpler, cursive forms. I wonder if you see that mixture in the line above. If you don't, there could be any of various meanings, e.g. that your computer doesn't have a Japanese font installed. But if you do see it (as I do), that too is odd as this page reads: <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" /> and of course those characters are definitely not within ISO 8859-1. |
Guest |
Aug 29 2006, 04:54 AM
Post
#2
|
Unregistered |
In IE6 I just get blank space. Opera at least displays a line of "||||||"-like characters, while Firefox displays "????".
|
|
|
Christian J |
Aug 29 2006, 04:56 AM
Post
#3
|
. Group: WDG Moderators Posts: 9,656 Joined: 10-August 06 Member No.: 7 |
That was me replying to the above, don't know why I became logged out. But it's happened before when I have both IE6 and Opera open at the same time.
|
John Pozadzides |
Aug 29 2006, 10:39 AM
Post
#4
|
WDG Founder Group: Root Admin Posts: 529 Joined: 3-August 06 From: Magnolia, TX Member No.: 2 |
|
pandy |
Aug 29 2006, 11:31 AM
Post
#5
|
🌟Computer says no🌟 Group: WDG Moderators Posts: 20,730 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 6 |
While I see the Japanese fine, both in IE and Opera. Always do. Browsers set to use to Western European (ISO). Never understood why it works this way.
|
jimlongo |
Aug 29 2006, 11:54 AM
Post
#6
|
This is My Life Group: Members Posts: 1,128 Joined: 24-August 06 From: t-dot Member No.: 16 |
it's Japanese in all my OS X browsers
Noticed the BB software converts it to html entities. Which you can type in and have appear, but once you preview they get converted to screen fonts in my browser . . . then if you edit or re-preview the screen fonts get converted to ???????? Strange. 語語語語 |
pandy |
Aug 29 2006, 12:38 PM
Post
#7
|
🌟Computer says no🌟 Group: WDG Moderators Posts: 20,730 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 6 |
You are so smart! Never thought of looking at the source.
|
Liam Quinn |
Aug 29 2006, 06:07 PM
Post
#8
|
WDG Founder Group: Root Admin Posts: 52 Joined: 2-August 06 From: Canada Member No.: 1 |
Noticed the BB software converts it to html entities. Your browser does that conversion when it submits non-ISO-8859-1 characters from an ISO-8859-1-encoded page. The problem is that the BB software isn't converting "&" to "&" for numeric character references. If I type "&" followed by "#169;", I would expect to see those six characters displayed literally, but the BB software fails to escape the "&", so I see the copyright sign. Since we need to be able to give examples of numeric character references here, I think we should fix the software to convert "&" to "&" as it does for entities like ©. |
John Pozadzides |
Aug 29 2006, 06:39 PM
Post
#9
|
WDG Founder Group: Root Admin Posts: 529 Joined: 3-August 06 From: Magnolia, TX Member No.: 2 |
|
John Pozadzides |
Aug 29 2006, 10:46 PM
Post
#10
|
WDG Founder Group: Root Admin Posts: 529 Joined: 3-August 06 From: Magnolia, TX Member No.: 2 |
Your browser does that conversion when it submits non-ISO-8859-1 characters from an ISO-8859-1-encoded page. O! That explains it. So John and Christian simply don't have a Japanese font? Uh. Something is wrong with this picture... I didn't write that last comment. pandy did you accidentally edit mine instead of replying? I had said something to the effect that I was having to check on this because it was a tough issues... |
John Pozadzides |
Aug 29 2006, 10:48 PM
Post
#11
|
WDG Founder Group: Root Admin Posts: 529 Joined: 3-August 06 From: Magnolia, TX Member No.: 2 |
Since we need to be able to give examples of numeric character references here, I think we should fix the software to convert "&" to "&" as it does for entities like ©. I just got an answer back from Invision on this. They say that this WILL work if we enable HTML posting on the board. Currently it is disabled because of all the mischief that people could cause with it. I'm not entirely following along with exactly what the problem is though. Can someone break it down for me very explicitly. Perhaps even give me a little sample of how it might be used/broken in a realy thread? John |
pandy |
Aug 29 2006, 10:56 PM
Post
#12
|
🌟Computer says no🌟 Group: WDG Moderators Posts: 20,730 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 6 |
Uh. Something is wrong with this picture... I didn't write that last comment. pandy did you accidentally edit mine instead of replying? I had said something to the effect that I was having to check on this because it was a tough issues... I guess I must have... I'm the one who said it anyway. |
Peter Evans |
Aug 29 2006, 11:25 PM
Post
#13
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 24-August 06 Member No.: 13 |
I should have looked at the source, sorry. (I plead exhaustion: a losing battle with a combination of installation of an unfamiliar distro, and gradual conviction that my hardware's on the blink. A new motherboard awaits installation.)
What's more alarming is that people can edit others' messages. As long as this superpower is limited to moderators, it's fine. I hasten to reassure y'all that I don't see edit buttons on your messages. (Or indeed on my own, which is a bit irritating as I'd like to correct my sleepy "like Chinese, and indeed from Japanese" to "like Chinese, and indeed from Chinese".) |
jimlongo |
Aug 30 2006, 08:30 AM
Post
#14
|
This is My Life Group: Members Posts: 1,128 Joined: 24-August 06 From: t-dot Member No.: 16 |
What's more alarming is that people can edit others' messages. As long as this superpower is limited to moderators, it's fine. I hasten to reassure y'all that I don't see edit buttons on your messages. (Or indeed on my own, which is a bit irritating as I'd like to correct my sleepy "like Chinese, and indeed from Japanese" to "like Chinese, and indeed from Chinese".) Once you start editing BBcode QUOTES it's pretty easy to improperly nest quotes and have them attributed to others. Just like any BB. |
jimlongo |
Aug 30 2006, 08:48 AM
Post
#15
|
This is My Life Group: Members Posts: 1,128 Joined: 24-August 06 From: t-dot Member No.: 16 |
I'm not entirely following along with exactly what the problem is though. Can someone break it down for me very explicitly. Perhaps even give me a little sample of how it might be used/broken in a realy thread? One problem you will find is that if you were to type an html entity -> then Preview, then look what happens to what you typed in the Reply Box, then Preview again. Eventually it will become undecipherable to the software. The same thing will happen with Quotes . . . for instance look at the quote in your reply to Liam it's quite different than what he wrote. I seem to remember a similar problem on my board with PHP and ampersands . . . is it anything in there? This post has been edited by jimlongo: Aug 30 2006, 08:55 AM |
John Pozadzides |
Aug 30 2006, 09:28 AM
Post
#16
|
WDG Founder Group: Root Admin Posts: 529 Joined: 3-August 06 From: Magnolia, TX Member No.: 2 |
I should have looked at the source, sorry. (I plead exhaustion: a losing battle with a combination of installation of an unfamiliar distro, and gradual conviction that my hardware's on the blink. A new motherboard awaits installation.) What's more alarming is that people can edit others' messages. As long as this superpower is limited to moderators, it's fine. I hasten to reassure y'all that I don't see edit buttons on your messages. (Or indeed on my own, which is a bit irritating as I'd like to correct my sleepy "like Chinese, and indeed from Japanese" to "like Chinese, and indeed from Chinese".) Peter, Only moderators can edit everyone's messages. You however can edit your own for up to 1 hour after posting. We set it up that way so that revisionism wouldn't take place. If you feel that time needs to be a little longer we can change it, but we'd need to have a little discussion on the matter. John |
John Pozadzides |
Aug 30 2006, 09:30 AM
Post
#17
|
WDG Founder Group: Root Admin Posts: 529 Joined: 3-August 06 From: Magnolia, TX Member No.: 2 |
One problem you will find is that if you were to type an html entity -> then Preview, then look what happens to what you typed in the Reply Box, then Preview again. Eventually it will become undecipherable to the software. The same thing will happen with Quotes . . . for instance look at the quote in your reply to Liam it's quite different than what he wrote. Ok. I do see that. But the flip side is that Liam was actually able to put it in there originally, which is the most important part if we are trying to give someone a little instruction... isn't it? John |
Liam Quinn |
Aug 30 2006, 07:05 PM
Post
#18
|
WDG Founder Group: Root Admin Posts: 52 Joined: 2-August 06 From: Canada Member No.: 1 |
I just got an answer back from Invision on this. They say that this WILL work if we enable HTML posting on the board. Currently it is disabled because of all the mischief that people could cause with it. I'm not entirely following along with exactly what the problem is though. Can someone break it down for me very explicitly. Perhaps even give me a little sample of how it might be used/broken in a realy thread? If I type the characters & # 1 6 9 ; without intervening spaces, I should not see the copyright sign. I should see the characters that I typed, like on the old BBS, which always escapes "&" as "&". Invision appears to be inconsistent regarding when it escapes "&". I can type & c o p y ; and have it show literally as ©, but even that gets mangled with quoting. That clearly indicates an Invision bug, whereas the & # 1 6 9 ; issue could be argued to be a feature (just not on an HTML discussion board). Enabling HTML posting isn't the right answer. It would make discussing HTML quite difficult if we had to escape all tags ourselves. |
Peter Evans |
Sep 1 2006, 05:41 AM
Post
#19
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 24-August 06 Member No.: 13 |
. . . I hasten to reassure y'all that I don't see edit buttons on your messages. (Or indeed on my own, which is a bit irritating as I'd like to correct my sleepy "like Chinese, and indeed from Japanese" to "like Chinese, and indeed from Chinese".) Only moderators can edit everyone's messages. You however can edit your own for up to 1 hour after posting. We set it up that way so that revisionism wouldn't take place. If you feel that time needs to be a little longer we can change it, but we'd need to have a little discussion on the matter. . . . Point taken. One hour seems reasonable. |
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 25th April 2024 - 12:24 PM |