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HTMLHelp Forums _ Off Topic _ How bad is Win 10?

Posted by: pandy Sep 22 2017, 03:42 PM

My computer has broken down. Yeah, again. I just bought a very slightly used one with a lot better components that I would otherwise afford.


It comes with Win 10 (Pro), I think. The guy hated it himself and recommended me to install 7 or 8 instead. 7 seems the least annoying, but support ends in less than 3 years. 8 seems pretty horrid too. So maybe I should just go with 10?

I've read about the murder of the start menu, that updates are forced and that you have no control of what and when. Is it as bad as I've heard?


Posted by: pandy Sep 22 2017, 03:46 PM

Also, I'm on my phone and won't be around much until I have a computer again. I'll of course read any answers to this thread though. :-)

Posted by: Christian J Sep 22 2017, 04:44 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 22 2017, 10:42 PM) *

It comes with Win 10 (Pro), I think.

Consider a clean reinstall, just in case...

QUOTE
8 seems pretty horrid too. So maybe I should just go with 10?


Yes, 8 (and 8.1?) is worse than 10 from what I read, so it's between 7, 10 or Linux.

QUOTE
I've read about the murder of the start menu, that updates are forced and that you have no control of what and when. Is it as bad as I've heard?

Perhaps with default settings, but a lot can be changed or removed.

There is a Start menu, and you can customize it and remove unwanted junk from it.

The flat user interface is a slight annoyance (hard to recognize clickable button, or if a menu needs to be scrolled), and user settings are found both in the old Control Panel and the new Settings, but it's no worse than the mess in previous Windows versions.

Forced updates can be postponed by setting your Internet connection type to "metered". You can't avoid security updates this way though, but even then they shouldn't restart the OS without consent.

I used third-party tools to disable as much spying as possible, and I of course wouldn't use any MS Cloud services or online accounts.

The security settings might be problematic in some cases. For example, my XAMPP installation is not allowed to access files in My Documents. Maybe it's possible to fix this somehow, but I simply moved my projects into XAMPP instead.

QUOTE
until I have a computer again.

Haven't you recieved it yet?

Posted by: pandy Sep 22 2017, 04:58 PM

I read that a cable connection can't be made metered. Not true? And if it can, can you somehow choose what updates to install or is it "install one and get it all"?

The start menu is a lesser problem since there are alternatives. But i've heard it's animated, filled with popup ads and that you can't order things as you want.

The flat look is a big problem for me. I found there is still a classic skin. Doesn't choosing that help?

Posted by: Christian J Sep 22 2017, 06:07 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 22 2017, 11:58 PM) *

I read that a cable connection can't be made metered. Not true?

No, you can set that yourself (so far).

QUOTE
And if it can, can you somehow choose what updates to install or is it "install one and get it all"?

With metered on, you only get security updates, with it off I think you get everything. I've read it's possible to uninstall individual updates afterwards, in case something's broken, not sure.

QUOTE
The start menu is a lesser problem since there are alternatives. But i've heard it's animated, filled with popup ads and that you can't order things as you want.

Ads can also show up in Windows Explorer. wub.gif But it's possible to disable all of it (so far). You can change menu order too, but I'm not too experienced with it in any Windows version.

The Taskbar is a bit different (not sure about Win7). When you start a program, it's rectangular Taskbar button shows up where the Quick launch shortcut is located, pushing all the other quick launch shortcuts to the right. This took a while to get used to.

QUOTE
The flat look is a big problem for me. I found there is still a classic skin. Doesn't choosing that help?

Haven't bothered changing. It mostly a minor annoyance to me, like today's browser skins.

Posted by: pandy Sep 22 2017, 08:49 PM

You are probably right and I should go with 10. It's certainly the easiest and cheapest since it comes with.

Posted by: pandy Sep 22 2017, 08:56 PM

I'm not good at hardware, but I think it's a good buy, probably overkill for me.

Processor i5 6600 K, PS 750W, GeForce 1060 6GB, 16 GB RAM (DDR4), a 250 GB SSD and a nice case with some kind of cooler and a lot of fans. ;-)

Posted by: Christian J Sep 23 2017, 05:04 AM

Looks like great specs, even for a gaming PC. Is it watercooled?

Posted by: pandy Sep 23 2017, 11:07 AM

Forgot to ask about the cooling. Haven't had anything like that before. Together with the screen i bought earlier I have feeling this will be a whole other experience than what I'm used too. But I didn't expect to have to buy a new computer this soon, so it's water and bread for me now.

Didn't see your question above. No, don't have it yet and haven't paid anything yet either. Hopefully the guy can deliver it himself on thursday. Otherwise it's DHL. Hope it works out, don't know hiw to do with payment otherwise

Posted by: pandy Sep 23 2017, 11:10 AM

And why the heck isn't it easy to change the language for the spell checker on a phone? :mad:

Posted by: Christian J Sep 23 2017, 12:12 PM

Thought you meant water cooled when you wrote "some kind of cooler"...

Posted by: pandy Sep 23 2017, 04:01 PM

I don't know what kinds there are.

It looks like the offspring of a fan and a destillery. Sadly it's cheap but it gets good reviews. It's called "Be quiet! Pure Rock". biggrin.gif

Posted by: Christian J Sep 23 2017, 06:12 PM

That's a CPU air cooler. Just be careful that the motherboard doesn't become damaged during shipping, since the heat sink is a bit heavy. My PC shipped without any obvious problems though.

Posted by: pandy Sep 24 2017, 07:51 AM

Plan was the guy would deliver it himself on thursday when he was going to Stockholm anyway, but that has been changed to next week. He's changed his mind and is now reluctant to ship it - and he works at Dustin and can use their boxes and other stuff for safe transport!

Worst case scenario - I fetch it. By bus. :-( Well, could be nice actually. It's in Strängnäs where I haven't been since my teens. Guess I could make it an "utflykt".

We'll see. I'll talk to him tonight.

Posted by: Christian J Sep 25 2017, 10:31 AM

You could also repair the old PC. I always keep the last one for backup when I get a new.

Posted by: pandy Sep 25 2017, 05:22 PM

I'll fetch it myself tomorrow. I'll spend 4 huours on a bus. But can't wait any longer. I get kind if nentally blocked without a computer. It's going to be nice weather and I'm planning on some sightseeing. Haven't been to Strängnäs since I was a kid but as i remeber it it's a pretty little town. And I can get some points in GPS game I'm playing too. biggrin.gif

Yeah, I'm planning to keep the old one, buy some cheep parts and put Linux on it. I think the graphics card and the PS are good. It's a good case anyway. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: pandy Sep 25 2017, 05:22 PM

I'll fetch it myself tomorrow. I'll spend 4 huours on a bus. But I can't wait any longer. I get kind if mentally blocked without a computer. It's going to be nice weather and I'm planning on some sightseeing. Haven't been to Strängnäs since I was a kid but as I remember it it's a pretty little town. And I can get some points in a GPS game I'm playing too. biggrin.gif

Yeah, I'm planning to keep the old one, buy some cheep parts and put Linux on it. I think the graphics card and the PS is good. It's a good case anyway. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: pandy Sep 25 2017, 05:25 PM

Oh, I decided on win10. The guy will format and make a fresh installation so we can test run before putting it in a box.

I think the best thing will be to use a real keyboard again and to see what I'm writing...

Posted by: pandy Sep 27 2017, 06:43 AM

Well, the computer is fast. smile.gif But the look and feel of Windows 10... My eyes hurt already - not joking. All this verbose text everywhere, the colors, no proper borders, program windows float into eachother *visually*... I don\t even manage to choose the color I want on the desktop. And yeah, the keyboard settings are screwed up somehow. That\s next.

Isn\t this supposed to be fun. It isn\t. And to explain, I can\t type a question mark, prim or paranthesis. ninja.gif

Posted by: pandy Sep 27 2017, 06:53 AM

Fixed the keyboard. Still sucks. Not even my beloved k-mel looks as it should. ninja.gif

Posted by: pandy Sep 27 2017, 09:13 AM

Christian, do you have Pro or some other more advanced version of 10? I have Home. I find no way to make an ethernet connection metered. sad.gif

And what's with these "apps"? Just a hip word for applications/programs or more like apps on a phone?

Posted by: Christian J Sep 27 2017, 09:33 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 27 2017, 01:43 PM) *

Well, the computer is fast. smile.gif But the look and feel of Windows 10... My eyes hurt already - not joking. All this verbose text everywhere, the colors, no proper borders,

Not sure if this one's any better: https://www.howtogeek.com/133405/how-to-get-classic-style-themes-back-on-windows-8/ (I've become used to the flat theme myself though).

But first of all clean up all the bloat and spyware which comes enabled by default, I used https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/ (though it has not been updated for a while). A couple other sites I've used for manual checking:

https://www.ghacks.net/2017/03/20/turn-off-most-windows-10-ads-with-a-double-click/
https://www.cyberpunkforums.com/viewtopic.php?id=3692

You can also re-enable Photo Viewer in the registry: https://www.howtogeek.com/225844/how-to-make-windows-photo-viewer-your-default-image-viewer-on-windows-10/

QUOTE
program windows float into eachother *visually*...

When does that happen? I think I've experienced something like that during Taskbar operations.

QUOTE
I don\t even manage to choose the color I want on the desktop.

That should work once you've entered the license key.

QUOTE
Isn\t this supposed to be fun.

The real fun is that this new mobile/touch screen design was done because Microsoft wanted the same Windows look on both PCs and smartphones. Then nobody wanted to buy their smartphones anyway. Oops. mellow.gif


Posted by: Christian J Sep 27 2017, 09:46 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 27 2017, 04:13 PM) *

Christian, do you have Pro or some other more advanced version of 10? I have Home. I find no way to make an ethernet connection metered. sad.gif

I have Home too. Go to Windows Settings (the cog wheel icon) > Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.

While you're at it, go to Win Update > Advanced > Choose how updates are delivered, and disable everything. There are many more similar annoyances, see the links I posted above.

QUOTE
And what's with these "apps"? Just a hip word for applications/programs or more like apps on a phone?

Both, I think. The plan is likely to make users buy programs from the Windows Store (similar to Apple's and Google's walled gardens) instead of downloading free software. Most likely they try to make it more complicated and scary to download free software, and that way herd users into the Windows Store, so expect even more "security warnings" etc in the future. wacko.gif

There's also a version called Windows 10 S, where you are only allowed to install programs from the Windows Store.

Posted by: pandy Sep 27 2017, 06:55 PM

Thanks. I'll look into the links tomorrow. My head spins right now.

QUOTE(Christian J @ Sep 27 2017, 04:46 PM) *

I have Home too. Go to Windows Settings (the cog wheel icon) > Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.


But how? sad.gif

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QUOTE
While you're at it, go to Win Update > Advanced > Choose how updates are delivered, and disable everything. There are many more similar annoyances, see the links I posted above.


Ouch, that's a nasty one.

QUOTE
There's also a version called Windows 10 S, where you are only allowed to install programs from the Windows Store.


For real? And people buy that? Maybe it's meant as some kind of semi kiosk mode? If you want to give a severly demented person a computer or use it as a learning machine at kindergarten maybe this offers some kind of security and still lets them play with installing stuff. ohmy.gif

About the floating windows, I meant in my mind. Big white areas without borders, with too much text and flashy icons and everything spread out instead of ordered in nice, compact columns and sections, I can't easily separate what belongs where. It does actually hurt my eyes. They get tired. Probably I stare to try to see something that isn't there.

I don't know. I've always defended MS back in the "evil empire days". I never thought they were quite as bad as people painted them. But now I don't know. Problem is, there's nowhere to go. Linux doesn't really do it for me. I can't use my favourite programs. Yeah, I know, Wine or whatever is used these days, but it isn't the same. And many Linux programs that could be good are in eternal beta stage.

So, at the end of the day, who will own our asses the most? MS or Google? ninja.gif

Posted by: pandy Sep 27 2017, 07:14 PM

BTW, several years ago now I said programs had started to look like web pages. Security related applications led the way, AV and Firewalls. Big icons, all backgrounds white or in some horrible strong color, i.e. no chrome. No menus, huge buttons instead. Now the whole freeking OS looks like that.

Speaking of icons, what happened to small, easily recognized icons in primal colors, I wonder? I don't want to study them in detail for minutes to discover what they may symbolize. Icons should be like traffic signs. High contrast, clear and stong colors and very, very easy to identify and understand.

Posted by: Christian J Sep 28 2017, 05:59 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 01:55 AM) *

But how? sad.gif

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That looks like the old Control Panel, that they're gradually phasing out. Now there's a second one called "Windows Settings". Go to Start and click the cog wheel icon in the bottom left, then Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.

QUOTE
For real? And people buy that?

No idea, but some seem to buy Chromebooks too. Apparently Win 10 S came with some Surface Laptops, but buyers where given the option to upgrade to full Windows.

QUOTE
Maybe it's meant as some kind of semi kiosk mode? If you want to give a severly demented person a computer or use it as a learning machine at kindergarten maybe this offers some kind of security and still lets them play with installing stuff. ohmy.gif

Yes, and maybe people demented by used to smartphones and tablet use will like it. wacko.gif

QUOTE
I don't know. I've always defended MS back in the "evil empire days". I never thought they were quite as bad as people painted them. But now I don't know.

The dirty tricks they've used to trick Win7 users to upgrade to 10 were a give-away for me. As for the spyware, the app store and the new UI, I think they just try to imitate Google and Apple in a clumsy way (kind of typical for MS).

QUOTE
So, at the end of the day, who will own our asses the most? MS or Google? ninja.gif

So far it's possible to fight Google by being careful, and you don't need any of the MS cloud services. But if MS starts spying on your file system and keyboard input it sure becomes hard to defend yourself. OTOH I can't imagine Win 10 Enterprise clients accepting that MS spies on their company secrets, and even if MS would just spy on pesky Win Home users I think the loss of trust might affect their Enterprise sales as well.

Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 06:37 AM

QUOTE
That looks like the old Control Panel, that they're gradually phasing out. Now there's a second one called "Windows Settings". Go to Start and click the cog wheel icon in the bottom left, then Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.


It leads to exactly the same page. What am I looking for? A "link on the page", a menu option?

Windows has upgraded itself with this creator's somthing or other I've read about. Some sites say what I'm trying to do is possible after that, but alas... Most sites just say it's impossible. But I assumed they were old, since you say it is doable.

Posted by: Christian J Sep 28 2017, 06:56 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 02:14 AM) *

BTW, several years ago now I said programs had started to look like web pages.

Lately I've started seeing web pages with "hamburger" icons in their menus, just like the Chrome browser. Sometimes it's several hamburger in a row. wacko.gif

QUOTE
Big icons, all backgrounds white or in some horrible strong color, i.e. no chrome. No menus, huge buttons instead. Now the whole freeking OS looks like that.

Maybe it's an adaption to small phone screens. I doubt it's for disabled users. unsure.gif


Posted by: Christian J Sep 28 2017, 07:05 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 01:37 PM) *

QUOTE
That looks like the old Control Panel, that they're gradually phasing out. Now there's a second one called "Windows Settings". Go to Start and click the cog wheel icon in the bottom left, then Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.


It leads to exactly the same page. What am I looking for? A "link on the page", a menu option?

You didn't click "Change Adapter Options" further down then? Here's the right one:

Attached Image

QUOTE
Windows has upgraded itself with this creator's somthing or other I've read about. Some sites say what I'm trying to do is possible after that, but alas... Most sites just say it's impossible. But I assumed they were old, since you say it is doable.

Sounds strange, I have Creator's update too but I've also done some customizations (as mentioned before).

Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 07:23 AM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Sep 27 2017, 04:33 PM) *

Not sure if this one's any better: https://www.howtogeek.com/133405/how-to-get-classic-style-themes-back-on-windows-8/ (I've become used to the flat theme myself though).


Yeah, I saw that. Maybe I'll try it later. The most annoying now is the limited number of colors I can choose from. I found the Control Color setting that's hidden somewhere. There is a color mixer that lets me change 15 patches. But those colors are only used for window borders, start menu and taskbars. For the desktop I'm stuck with the presets.

See, I've got used to having my desktop in a special shade of gray. An image editor I use have the interface in different shades of gray only, even icons. That's so your perception of color won't be tinted. I found it so restful that I made windows like that too, as far as possible, different shades of gray for everything I could change.

Posted by: Christian J Sep 28 2017, 10:52 AM

Did you find the Metered Connection setting? I'm getting a bit worried since I'm about to change ISP.

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 02:23 PM) *

The most annoying now is the limited number of colors I can choose from. I found the Control Color setting that's hidden somewhere. There is a color mixer that lets me change 15 patches. But those colors are only used for window borders, start menu and taskbars. For the desktop I'm stuck with the presets.

Not sure what you mean here, I can just right-click on the desktop, chose Personalize, and change Background Picture to solid color. You can make custom colors too.

QUOTE
See, I've got used to having my desktop in a special shade of gray. An image editor I use have the interface in different shades of gray only, even icons. That's so your perception of color won't be tinted. I found it so restful that I made windows like that too, as far as possible, different shades of gray for everything I could change.

If all else fails I guess you could create a solid color background image. tongue.gif


Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 12:37 PM

[quote]
Did you find the Metered Connection setting? I'm getting a bit worried since I'm about to change ISP.
[/quote]

Yeah, I that's what I meant. It leads to exactly the same page as I posted a screen cap of before.


[quote]Not sure what you mean here, I can just right-click on the desktop, chose Personalize, and change Background Picture to solid color. You can make custom colors too.[/quote]

There's just 24 patches for the background and 48 for the chrome. No custom colors.

Attached Image

I found though google though that you can type "color control" in the Run box and you get to customize 15 patches for the chrome.



[quote]See, I've got used to having my desktop in a special shade of gray. An image editor I use have the interface in different shades of gray only, even icons. That's so your perception of color won't be tinted. I found it so restful that I made windows like that too, as far as possible, different shades of gray for everything I could change.[/quote]
If all else fails I guess you could create a solid color background image. tongue.gif
[/quote]

That never gets really solid. biggrin.gif

Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 12:40 PM

I don't know why the quotes are missed upp either. cool.gif

Posted by: Christian J Sep 28 2017, 01:18 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 07:37 PM) *

Yeah, I that's what I meant. It leads to exactly the same page as I posted a screen cap of before.

I get to "your" page by clicking "Change adapter options" further down. unsure.gif

I can also go to my page by clicking Ethernet (in the left column in my screenshot) after next clicking the connected network shown on the right.

QUOTE
There's just 24 patches for the background and 48 for the chrome. No custom colors.

That's very odd. Have you activated the product key yet? That and the Spybot utility are the only things I can think of that makes my installation unusual. Try both those things, maybe they unlock hidden menus. Did you actually install Creator's update, or just download it? Have you rebooted afterwards? cool.gif

Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 02:54 PM

I have rebooted, but not done anything actively. Now they have announced a major update, so big that they let me schedule it... Maybe that's the thing?

I misunderstood you before. I did click Adapter Options. That's all I've got. I don't have the option you used.

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Posted by: Christian J Sep 28 2017, 03:53 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 09:54 PM) *

Now they have announced a major update, so big that they let me schedule it... Maybe that's the thing?

Don't think so, if you already got Creator's, I got another one too the other day.

QUOTE
I misunderstood you before. I did click Adapter Options.

Don't do that. cool.gif

QUOTE
That's all I've got. I don't have the option you used.

What happens when you click on "Ethernet" in the left column, and then click on the connected network that shows up to the right?

Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 04:03 PM

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Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 04:58 PM

cool.gif cool.gif cool.gif cool.gif cool.gif

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Now to my next question. I suppose there is no way to review and choose the updates I want? It's nothing or all?

Posted by: Christian J Sep 28 2017, 04:58 PM

Where did you find it?

You can't choose updates, but maybe uninstall them individually afterwards.

Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 05:01 PM

tongue.gif




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Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 05:06 PM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Sep 28 2017, 11:58 PM) *

Where did you find it?


You know I possess seriously leet skillz. cool.gif

No, it was the big update. Actually, I thought I would pull down all updates, but the notification came before I had time to do it and since they said it would take time I scheduled it for later.

QUOTE
You can't choose updates, but maybe uninstall them individually afterwards.


So if there is one I want I'll get all the ones I've held back uptil then? Lovely. IPB Image

Talking about uninstalling, if I get rid of the silly apps and programs I don't want, they will just push them on me again, right?


Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 05:17 PM

Better! biggrin.gif

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Can you explain to me how I can have two desktop.ini side by side though? unsure.gif

Posted by: Christian J Sep 28 2017, 05:27 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 29 2017, 12:06 AM) *

Talking about uninstalling, if I get rid of the silly apps and programs I don't want, they will just push them on me again, right?

Haven't checked actually. At least they stay away from the Start menu.

It's perhaps a good idea to check settings after major updates, some say they can get reset.

QUOTE
Can you explain to me how I can have two desktop.ini side by side though?

I don't even get one ini, despite showing hidden files (I recall Vista displayed them, though). Is it something that the Classic Start menu added? unsure.gif

Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 05:35 PM

Dunno. I found and installed that one right off. Have you tried it? I like it. If you Shift-click you get the normal windows 10 menu, both worlds.

Posted by: pandy Sep 28 2017, 05:39 PM

At least one of them is probably from the menu. But how can two identically named files exist in the same folder? Somthing must make each one unique but it isn't visible to us. blink.gif

CODE

[.ShellClassInfo]
LocalizedResourceName=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-21769


CODE

IconResource=%SystemRoot%\system32\imageres.dll,-183
[LocalizedFileNames]
Internet Explorer.lnk=@%windir%\System32\ie4uinit.exe,-731


Well, thank you for your help. Tomorrow I'll get my old drives in and start sorting and installing. I decided not to rush this time.

Posted by: Christian J Sep 29 2017, 06:49 AM

I almost never use the Start menu myself, so it's just a minor issue to me.

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 29 2017, 12:39 AM) *

But how can two identically named files exist in the same folder? Somthing must make each one unique but it isn't visible to us. blink.gif

No idea. Do they persist after rebooting? If not it might be a UI bug. Didn't understand the code you posted, where did you find it? unsure.gif

QUOTE
Tomorrow I'll get my old drives in and start sorting and installing. I decided not to rush this time.

I'd use a HDD for music and videos, it's fast enough for them. Save the SSD space for the OS and programs.


Posted by: pandy Sep 30 2017, 06:04 AM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Sep 29 2017, 01:49 PM) *

Didn't understand the code you posted, where did you find it? unsure.gif

Just the content of the ini files.

QUOTE

I'd use a HDD for music and videos, it's fast enough for them. Save the SSD space for the OS and programs.


That's what I'm planning. Sadly I don't think the SSD is big enough for all programs.

Posted by: Christian J Sep 30 2017, 09:43 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 30 2017, 01:04 PM) *

Just the content of the ini files.

I got curious, and found this: https://superuser.com/questions/463946/why-do-i-have-identical-files-in-one-directory-in-windows-7

QUOTE
Sadly I don't think the SSD is big enough for all programs.

I put most of my large programs (games) on the HDD too, only a few favorites go on the SSD.


Posted by: pandy Oct 1 2017, 08:19 AM

I don't fully understand what solved that guys problem, but it seems it was related to not showing known extensions and/or system files. I of course turned all that on first thing. cool.gif

Yeah. I don't play games. Well, solitaire... blush.gif But maybe primarily put often used programs on the SSD and big, heavy programs. Must google how much free space Win10 needs. It and the crap that comes with takes up a lot of space to begin with. I've only installed K-Mel and FF and I've uninstalled some stuff too, and the disk is already 1/5 full, 42 GB used.

Sometimes I miss Win95 and the 1 GB HD I had back then. wub.gif

Posted by: pandy Oct 1 2017, 09:27 AM

This is what I mean when I say everything is white. K-mel at least has nice, classic icons, but its toolbar is white in Win10. For me it's a strain on the eyes. It's not clear what is the page/work area and what is the toolbar.

Attached Image

In k-mel's case I could fix it by replacing the optional (patterned) background image with a solid gray one. See? Much nicer. wub.gif
Alas that can't be done with most programs.

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Posted by: Christian J Oct 1 2017, 10:07 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 1 2017, 03:19 PM) *

Must google how much free space Win10 needs. It and the crap that comes with takes up a lot of space to begin with. I've only installed K-Mel and FF and I've uninstalled some stuff too, and the disk is already 1/5 full, 42 GB used.

I use about 150GB 90GB, but that's including a couple of games too. Don't know much about non-game programs that use a lot of space, maybe audio/video/3D editors, CAD and compilers (if you store the project files on the SSD).

Then maybe Windows will grab more and more for its System Restore feature. In Vista I had to delete old restore points now and then, not sure if that's changed in 10.

QUOTE
Sometimes I miss Win95 and the 1 GB HD I had back then

Must have cost a fortune to fill up with a metered dial-up connection. Of course one could also install programs from CDs that came with computer magazines. cool.gif

Posted by: Christian J Oct 1 2017, 10:09 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 1 2017, 04:27 PM) *

This is what I mean when I say everything is white.

My browsers have blue (my chosen system color) or gray toolbars (some turn white when not in focus though). Maybe it's a K-Mel bug.

Posted by: pandy Oct 1 2017, 07:53 PM

No, all programs are like that. I don't see where I can change the color of the toolbar? The color I choose (the darker gray) only affects the title bar.

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Posted by: Christian J Oct 2 2017, 05:19 AM

Seems you're right about Notepad's menu bar, but most of my other ones are light gray or blue even there (the ones that still let you view the menu bar, God bless their hearts). Maybe it's a system default that can be changed with another .ini?

Posted by: jokerrules Oct 4 2017, 03:49 AM

QUOTE
Sometimes I miss Win95 and the 1 GB HD I had back then. wub.gif


I hear you, man. I feel like every version of Windows has been worse than the one before. I finally broke down and got an iMac. happy.gif

Posted by: CharlesEF Oct 4 2017, 01:56 PM

I came across this https://www.tenforums.com/customization/43571-change-color-menubar-list-header.html. Seems you can define a new theme (instead of messing with the original). Hope this might help.

Posted by: pandy Oct 4 2017, 04:54 PM

Ah! Wonderful! I'm prepared to do some work once I've got things running. BTW, I had my finger on the ban button before I saw you were the poster. My eyes is always drawn to any link first. I misread and thought it said "teenforums". biggrin.gif

I'll continue to pick your brains, if I may.

I've already found that the Program Files (x86) folder isn't an entirely bad idea. I have, of course, installed programs in a folder named - taa-taa! - Programs as I've done since many years. And I've also heard that's a good idea to get around some annoyances with newer versions of Windows. I have this really old menu program called AppBar. I've dragged it from computer to computer and everything has worked straight off - until now. It's tiny bar with text based menus. I have everything I use often on it. Programs, folders, documents. I use to have it at the bottom. It autohides behind the taskbar. That didn't work. So I put it at the top of the screen instead. Everything worked, or so I thought. The paths that happened to be the same worked fine, but it turned out I couldn't edit the entries or add new one, got strange error messages. When I moved it to the x86 folder everything worked, even having it coexist with the taskbar. I'm so happy! wub.gif It's rather cool actually. I think that little program is from before Win 95 even.

To the point. I'm trying to get rid of the annoying prompts. I realize not allowing any program to run as administrator is actually a good idea. But how do I set the programs I trust to do it? Some have it in there own Options, but that doesn't seem to take. I find this little tutorial duplicated all over the web.
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/always-run-a-program-in-administrator-mode-in-windows-10/

Problem is I don't get a Shortcut tab when I rightclick an exe. I only have the ones in the screen cap and none of them have the setting I'm looking for. So is there another way to do this?

Attached Image

Posted by: pandy Oct 4 2017, 05:17 PM

Oh, I think they are talking about rightclicking a shortcut, not an exe... And I found this. The setting is also on the compatibility tab (when rightclicking an exe). Doesn't seem to work though, but maybe a reboot is needed.
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/3436-run-administrator-windows-10-a.html#option10

I also have problems with file associations not sticking. That seems to be common. The advice is to use Settings... Default Apps and to use the Set defaults by apps option. Problem with that, apart from sounding tedious, is that hardly any of the programs I've installed so far shows up there. Basically only FF and Adobe's programs do. wacko.gif

Posted by: pandy Oct 4 2017, 05:27 PM

OK, I've set the options both on the shortcut properties and on the exe properties. It doesn't work. Neither does rightclicking a shortcut and choosing Run as Aministrator. I have rebooted.

The stupid OS also made one of the two extra hard drives I put in Read Only. Why one and not the other? It has also made som files I moved from those HDs to C protected somehow, don't remember what it was called. The latter was easy to get rid of, but I hope I don't have to do that every time I move a file.

So far my experirience isn't great. ninja.gif

Posted by: Christian J Oct 4 2017, 06:08 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 4 2017, 11:54 PM) *

I've already found that the Program Files (x86) folder isn't an entirely bad idea. I have, of course, installed programs in a folder named - taa-taa! - Programs as I've done since many years. And I've also heard that's a good idea to get around some annoyances with newer versions of Windows.

Probably you already know this, but I think the Programs folder is for 64 bit programs and the x86 one is for 32 bit.

You can also right-click shortcuts for older programs and make them run in compatibility mode.

QUOTE
I also have problems with file associations not sticking. That seems to be common. The advice is to use Settings... Default Apps and to use the Set defaults by apps option. Problem with that, apart from sounding tedious, is that hardly any of the programs I've installed so far shows up there. Basically only FF and Adobe's programs do

Below the list there should be settings based on file type, protocol and app (how I hate that word, "app" dry.gif ).

Posted by: pandy Oct 4 2017, 08:05 PM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 5 2017, 01:08 AM) *

Probably you already know this, but I think the Programs folder is for 64 bit programs and the x86 one is for 32 bit.

Yes.

QUOTE
You can also right-click shortcuts for older programs and make them run in compatibility mode.


That didn't help, you see. But moving the program to x86 did. So there must be a difference.

QUOTE

QUOTE
I also have problems with file associations not sticking. That seems to be common. The advice is to use Settings... Default Apps and to use the Set defaults by apps option. Problem with that, apart from sounding tedious, is that hardly any of the programs I've installed so far shows up there. Basically only FF and Adobe's programs do

Below the list there should be settings based on file type, protocol and app (how I hate that word, "app" dry.gif ).


I know. But there are lots of pages about this problem, since it seems very common. The consensus is that the way I described works when other ways don't. But if the "app" isn't even listed? And why aren't they listed? Some simple programs I confess that I just dragged over, but the properly installed ones aren't there either.

Another annoyance. Setting programs to run at startup doesn't always work either. Maybe because of that UAC thing?

This will drive me nuts! Anyway, two program associations now works. Several days after I did something about it, so I don't know what did the trick. Maybe information about any changes to the system needs to be sent to MS for approval before they are okeyed. ninja.gif

This is going slowly. It feels like accomplishing one thing a day is more than enough.

About apps, long ago I occasionally used that word as short for application. But nowadays one comes to think of mobile apps. And "they" makes a distinction between apps and programs. So how are apps different?

Posted by: Christian J Oct 5 2017, 04:49 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 5 2017, 03:05 AM) *

That didn't help, you see. But moving the program to x86 did. So there must be a difference.

I meant if the program didn't work in the x86 folder either.

QUOTE
The consensus is that the way I described works when other ways don't.

I didn't have too much problems with associations. Maybe a couple got lost in the beginning, not sure. Perhaps Windows updates screw things up, or maybe Windows intentionally resets them in a desperate last attempt to make you try the Edge browser? laugh.gif

QUOTE
But if the "app" isn't even listed?

Can't you use file type then? But if a program uses its own file extensions maybe you need to create such a file before the file type is recognized (just guessing). unsure.gif

QUOTE
Maybe information about any changes to the system needs to be sent to MS for approval before they are okeyed. ninja.gif

That wouldn't surprise me at all. You did disable all the Cloud features right? Windows Defender has a couple. Also beware of any third party antivirus programs you may use, maybe they work differently in Win10.

QUOTE
About apps, long ago I occasionally used that word as short for application. But nowadays one comes to think of mobile apps. And "they" makes a distinction between apps and programs. So how are apps different?

A "program" is something suspicious and complicated that you can find free on the wild web. An "app" is something safe and cool that you can buy in the app store. Seems Google and Apple started pushing the term for mobile, then it spilled over to Windows desktop as well together along with the mobile UI. Maybe Linux desktop used it earlier too, can't remember its terminology.

Posted by: pandy Oct 5 2017, 09:42 AM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 5 2017, 11:49 AM) *

Can't you use file type then?

Point was that didn't work and when it doesn't the method where my programs don't show up is supposed to.

Of course, what I really want is that the choices made from within the program in question would stick. Every other way to do it seems cumbersome. Say, for IrfanView I want maybe 15 associations. What an ordeal do have to do them one by one. But at least some associations has started to work now. So maybe the problem will go away.


QUOTE
A "program" is something suspicious and complicated that you can find free on the wild web. An "app" is something safe and cool that you can buy in the app store. Seems Google and Apple started pushing the term for mobile, then it spilled over to Windows desktop as well together along with the mobile UI. Maybe Linux desktop used it earlier too, can't remember its terminology.


I'm beginning to think there's more to it. That the apps work in a different way somehow. I haven't had the strength to dig into things that isn't essencial to get this monster running yet.

I've tried to lower the UAC settings. Turning it off totally actually works. The other setting are all the same. Dimming the desktop? I don't ever see any dimming. IPB Image


Posted by: pandy Oct 5 2017, 09:45 AM

There are totatally idiotic answers at Windows Support about the UAC problem. Threads end with the problem still existing or they are solved by another user, not support. But I've already tried all of the suggested fixes.

There was one suggestion from a support person that I'll try tonight though. To create a new account with admin rights. Maybe it's my account that's somehow screwed up. Have to read up first though so I don't lock myself out. wink.gif

Posted by: pandy Oct 5 2017, 09:47 AM

Another thing. I remember you can't see the image in my sig. It's the same for me now. Windows firewall? I run the built in security suite for now.

Posted by: Christian J Oct 5 2017, 10:15 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 5 2017, 04:42 PM) *

I'm beginning to think there's more to it. That the apps work in a different way somehow. I haven't had the strength to dig into things that isn't essencial to get this monster running yet.

You mean Windows 10 apps in particular? Yes, if nothing else they might be part of the on-going migration from the old Control Panel to the new "Windows Settings". Some of the apps can't be uninstalled either.

QUOTE
Dimming the desktop? I don't ever see any dimming. IPB Image

The Night Light? I think it only changes color temperature.

Parts of the OS is definately buggy, though. For example, I found a checkbox that once ticked it can't be unticked. wacko.gif

QUOTE
Another thing. I remember you can't see the image in my sig. It's the same for me now. Windows firewall? I run the built in security suite for now.

No it appeared once I got my new computer, no idea why. Today it suddenly stopped working again, but this time it seems to be the server.

Posted by: pandy Oct 5 2017, 07:49 PM

Oh, OK. Then we both will see it soon maybe. tongue.gif

No, the dimming referred to what they talk about in the UAC CP. Sheesh, the thing looks like a webpage but text can't be copied. If you set it to the second level from the bottom it says blah blah (Do not dim my desktop) blah blah.


Posted by: Christian J Oct 5 2017, 08:00 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 6 2017, 02:49 AM) *

Oh, OK. Then we both will see it soon maybe. tongue.gif

Seems the whole site is down. I don't even remember what ACTA(?) is about, there have been so many new ones. mellow.gif


ACTA is over but I like the image. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
QUOTE
No, the dimming referred to what they talk about in the UAC CP. Sheesh, the thing looks like a webpage but text can't be copied. If you set it to the second level from the bottom it says blah blah (Do not dim my desktop) blah blah.

Oh that. When the UAC prompt is fired, the whole desktop background darkens.


I understand something like that is supposed to happen. But it doesn't. Not that I care.

blush.gif Well, I'm sort of typing with very small letters now. As I think I said, I installed things outside Program Files. I've even heard that is recommended, even for Win 10. But since I discovered some old programs didn't work outside x86 I thought maybe new programs dont work properly outide their proper location either. Classic Shell was one of the first I installed and since it messes with the shell... I uninstalled it and reinstalled it properly. Things brightened up a little.

File associations seem to work now, even if not instantly. Alas UAC is the same as before.

One step in the right direction anyway. One problem with association is that Photos has grabbed some image extensions and won't let go (I've only done images and various text files so far). In Control Panel\Programs\Default Programs\Set Default Programs\Set Program Associations the extensions it has grabbed can't be unticked. Sigh.

Posted by: pandy Oct 8 2017, 12:48 PM

Sorry, I think I wrote in your post. Lucky I quoted you. blush.gif

File assocations half work. For image files it turned out Photos didn't want to let go of some types. After uninstalling Photos I can associate PNG and JPG with Irfan, but only from the Windows CP, not with Irfan settings. Sigh.

Help files can't be opened in the x86 folder. I have to pull them out. So they can't be opened from the program's menu. Is this normal?

Posted by: Christian J Oct 8 2017, 02:21 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 8 2017, 07:48 PM) *

Sorry, I think I wrote in your post. Lycky I quoted you. blush.gif

Win10 is taking its toll. wacko.gif

QUOTE
I understand something like that is supposed to happen. But it doesn't. Not that I care.

It's an opacity effect, first seen in Vista AFAIK. Maybe the Classic Shell prevents such things.

QUOTE
For image files it turned out Photos didn't want to let go of some types. After uninstalling Photos I can associate PNG and JPG with Irfan, but only from the Windows CP, not with Irfan settings. Sigh.

I can change it in the file type list without uninstalling Photos. BTW I also noticed that you can change default programs both in Control Panel and Windows Settings --wonder if both work the same, or if one is better?

QUOTE
Help files can't be opened in the x86 folder. I have to pull them out. So they can't be opened from the program's menu. Is this normal?

No they work for me, at least with Irfanview.

Posted by: pandy Oct 8 2017, 07:21 PM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 8 2017, 09:21 PM) *

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 8 2017, 07:48 PM) *

Sorry, I think I wrote in your post. Lycky I quoted you. blush.gif

Win10 is taking its toll. wacko.gif


It surely is. Soon I'm tired of computers altogether. I don't think I've ever used this much time to get things working. Earlier it has been a matter of finding files and installing programs and setting things up as I want. Tiresome but kind of a work of love at the sime time. This - I don't get anywhere. Just google the same things, read the same tips and am afraid to install too much in case I have to start over. It's just boring.

QUOTE
QUOTE
I understand something like that is supposed to happen. But it doesn't. Not that I care.

It's an opacity effect, first seen in Vista AFAIK. Maybe the Classic Shell prevents such things.


Nuh. Uninstalling it didn't change a thing.

QUOTE
QUOTE
For image files it turned out Photos didn't want to let go of some types. After uninstalling Photos I can associate PNG and JPG with Irfan, but only from the Windows CP, not with Irfan settings. Sigh.

I can change it in the file type list without uninstalling Photos. BTW I also noticed that you can change default programs both in Control Panel and Windows Settings --wonder if both work the same, or if one is better?


I could too (I think) but things didn't stick. Associate file types with my text editor didn't stick earlier either but after nn numbers of reboots it did. Go figure.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Help files can't be opened in the x86 folder. I have to pull them out. So they can't be opened from the program's menu. Is this normal?

No they work for me, at least with Irfanview.


Checking... Irfan works for me too, but I have the 64 bit version.

Another funny thing. They say turning UAC off stop "native apps" from working, including the start menu. Huh, no. The start menu is still there. Oh well, one bug to be grateful for I suppose. IPB Image

Posted by: Christian J Oct 9 2017, 06:07 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 9 2017, 02:21 AM) *

I don't think I've ever used this much time to get things working. Earlier it has been a matter of finding files and installing programs and setting things up as I want. Tiresome but kind of a work of love at the sime time. This - I don't get anywhere. Just google the same things, read the same tips and am afraid to install too much in case I have to start over. It's just boring.

For me it was relatively painless, but maybe I haven't customized as much as you.

QUOTE
Nuh. Uninstalling it didn't change a thing.

It could be a driver issue as well. After I bought my new monitor, my old Vista PC sometimes started with the screen slightly darkened. Sometimes half the screen was dark. Similar things happened with the Win10 PC until remembered to install the monitor driver.

Also check that opacity is enabled in Settings > Personalization > Color. BTW there's also a setting to "Show accent color on the following surfaces" --maybe that affects those white program toolbars you got?

QUOTE
I could too (I think) but things didn't stick. Associate file types with my text editor didn't stick earlier either but after nn numbers of reboots it did. Go figure.

I suspect Windows updates reset some preferences. Perhaps one needs to recheck the privacy settings after every update as well.

QUOTE
Checking... Irfan works for me too, but I have the 64 bit version.

See if running the x86 programs in compatibility mode works.

QUOTE
Another funny thing. They say turning UAC off stop "native apps" from working, including the start menu.

Sounds strange. Who says that, MS?

Posted by: pandy Oct 9 2017, 05:38 PM

QUOTE

QUOTE

I don't think I've ever used this much time to get things working. Earlier it has been a matter of finding files and installing programs and setting things up as I want. Tiresome but kind of a work of love at the sime time. This - I don't get anywhere. Just google the same things, read the same tips and am afraid to install too much in case I have to start over. It's just boring.

For me it was relatively painless, but maybe I haven't customized as much as you.


I've just fiddled with colors. It's the other things that is the main problem. Associations, drag and drop, that Run as Administrator doesn't work so I have to turn UAC off...

QUOTE

QUOTE

Nuh. Uninstalling it didn't change a thing.

It could be a driver issue as well. After I bought my new monitor, my old Vista PC sometimes started with the screen slightly darkened. Sometimes half the screen was dark. Similar things happened with the Win10 PC until remembered to install the monitor driver.


But shouldn't screen drivers come with Windows updates? And could they affect the things I have problems with? I don't know what other drivers it could be.

QUOTE

Also check that opacity is enabled in Settings > Personalization > Color. BTW there's also a setting to "Show accent color on the following surfaces" --maybe that affects those white program toolbars you got?


I saw those options before but didn't understand what they do. I'll have a new look.

QUOTE

QUOTE

I could too (I think) but things didn't stick. Associate file types with my text editor didn't stick earlier either but after nn numbers of reboots it did. Go figure.

I suspect Windows updates reset some preferences. Perhaps one needs to recheck the privacy settings after every update as well.


Well, text files (I mean that in a wide sense) have disassociated themselves again. Some still have the Notetab icon and nothing happens when clicking them. Some, for example .txt, are back to Notepad.

QUOTE

Checking... Irfan works for me too, but I have the 64 bit version.
See if running the x86 programs in compatibility mode works.


Should that be need it when they are in the x86 folder? But I think I've ticked that box too, for the troublesome ones anyway.

QUOTE

QUOTE

Another funny thing. They say turning UAC off stop "native apps" from working, including the start menu.

Sounds strange. Who says that, MS?


Yes. MS and everyone else. That's one of the most common questions. People have the same problem as I do and when they turn UAC of they lose the start menu. But maybe that's something MS has fixed later.

Posted by: Christian J Oct 10 2017, 01:32 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 10 2017, 12:38 AM) *

But shouldn't screen drivers come with Windows updates?

No idea. The first two weeks my new PC would sometimes display a band of artifacts on the screen before Win10 started, then the PC rebooted automatically. At first I suspected some hardware glitch. It ended once I installed the monitor's own driver, but a Win update was also installed at the same time, so I'm not sure what fixed it.

This also reminds me that Win10 didn't allow my Samsung scanner driver for "security reasons".

QUOTE
Well, text files (I mean that in a wide sense) have disassociated themselves again.

You mean it didn't happen because of an update? What else could have caused it? A reboot? A "housekeeping" process?

QUOTE
Some still have the Notetab icon and nothing happens when clicking them.

Not even a prompt to choose program? I always got that.

QUOTE
Should that be need it when they are in the x86 folder? But I think I've ticked that box too, for the troublesome ones anyway.

I got one program working by clicking the button "Run compatibility troubleshooter" (which downloaded an older version of .NET Framework), but in that case the help files were not the problem.

BTW the compatibility dropdown only lets you choose from Vista and newer Win OS, don't know what that means for even older programs.

QUOTE
Yes. MS and everyone else. That's one of the most common questions. People have the same problem as I do and when they turn UAC of they lose the start menu. But maybe that's something MS has fixed later.

Aha, you enabled the Administrator account? I haven't felt the need for that yet. True, now I read that those modern apps need UAC to work, apparently there's a fix: https://winaero.com/blog/fix-apps-and-start-menu-do-not-open-under-administrator-account-in-windows-10/

Posted by: Christian J Oct 12 2017, 03:22 PM

Regarding the opacity, can you see the desktop wallpaper through the Taskbar? It's almost black, but should be slightly translucent.

Posted by: pandy Oct 13 2017, 01:05 AM

QUOTE
QUOTE
Well, text files (I mean that in a wide sense) have disassociated themselves again.

You mean it didn't happen because of an update? What else could have caused it? A reboot? A "housekeeping" process?


I don't know. I haven't been notified about any update, but I don't know if I'm supposed to be or if they happen in the background.

QUOTE

QUOTE
Some still have the Notetab icon and nothing happens when clicking them.

Not even a prompt to choose program? I always got that.


No. Dead.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Should that be needed it when they are in the x86 folder? But I think I've ticked that box too, for the troublesome ones anyway.

I got one program working by clicking the button "Run compatibility troubleshooter" (which downloaded an older version of .NET Framework), but in that case the help files were not the problem.

OK. I think I ran that once but didn't get anything out of it.

QUOTE
BTW the compatibility dropdown only lets you choose from Vista and newer Win OS, don't know what that means for even older programs.

For once my fucked up installation is better than yours! I have all of them back to Win95. biggrin.gif

QUOTE

Aha, you enabled the Administrator account? I haven't felt the need for that yet. True, now I read that those modern apps need UAC to work, apparently there's a fix: https://winaero.com/blog/fix-apps-and-start-menu-do-not-open-under-administrator-account-in-windows-10/


Yes. I even created a second Admin account in case something was wrong with the first. Didn't help. But UAC is off and I still have the start menu. Nothing is as described with this.

New for today - all extensions are hidden. Not only "known" ones. I have invented some of my own. I'm starting to feel like saying censored words. ninja.gif

Posted by: pandy Oct 13 2017, 01:06 AM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 12 2017, 10:22 PM) *

Regarding the opacity, can you see the desktop wallpaper through the Taskbar? It's almost black, but should be slightly translucent.


I don't know since my desktop is dark gray too. biggrin.gif
I can't see any icons through it. Should I?

Posted by: Christian J Oct 13 2017, 04:45 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 13 2017, 08:05 AM) *

I don't know. I haven't been notified about any update, but I don't know if I'm supposed to be or if they happen in the background.

I think I always get notifications in the Action Center, otherwise they should be listed in the Update History. The last Windows update was on 10/10, I installed it yesterday.

QUOTE
No. Dead.

No response from right-clicking either? Have you looked for registry errors?

QUOTE
For once my fucked up installation is better than yours! I have all of them back to Win95. biggrin.gif

It seems to depend on how old the program is, now I found one with Win95 too.

QUOTE

Yes. I even created a second Admin account in case something was wrong with the first. Didn't help. But UAC is off and I still have the start menu. Nothing is as described with this.

New for today - all extensions are hidden. Not only "known" ones. I have invented some of my own. I'm starting to feel like saying censored words. ninja.gif

Something does seem broken. You might check the registry, SSD, RAM etc for errors. BTW you did hear about CCleaner being compromised a few days ago?


Posted by: Christian J Oct 13 2017, 04:46 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 13 2017, 08:06 AM) *

I can't see any icons through it. Should I?

Yes, icons and open programs.

Posted by: pandy Oct 13 2017, 05:28 AM

I don't. I may have set it to not be transparent, I don't remember. If there is such a setting, I probably used it.

Posted by: pandy Oct 14 2017, 12:49 AM

You also have HDD drives, don't you? I have Windows and the few programs I've gotten around to install on C (SSD) and documents on D (HDD) and think I'll have photos and some other largish stuff on E (HDD).

I notice that when I save an ordinary text document on D it sometimes takes time, maybe 5 or 6 seconds. On XP it was instant. Is this Win10's doing? Does it need to perform some stupid security checks when not saving on C? I can't think it's because of the HDD itself. It was fast enough a few weeks ago...

Posted by: Christian J Oct 14 2017, 04:14 AM

No that's not normal. Is that one of your old HDDs (from XP?), did it come with the PC or did you buy it and install yourself?

Posted by: CharlesEF Oct 14 2017, 11:55 AM

I think that delay in saving files is because Win10 defaults to save on OneDrive (cloud). See https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Files-save-to-OneDrive-by-default-in-Windows-10-33da0077-770c-4bda-b61e-8c8e8ca70ac7

Posted by: pandy Oct 14 2017, 07:02 PM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 14 2017, 11:14 AM) *

No that's not normal. Is that one of your old HDDs (from XP?), did it come with the PC or did you buy it and install yourself?


It's from my old puter. It was D there too and saving was instant.

Posted by: pandy Oct 14 2017, 07:03 PM

QUOTE(CharlesEF @ Oct 14 2017, 06:55 PM) *

I think that delay in saving files is because Win10 defaults to save on OneDrive (cloud). See https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Files-save-to-OneDrive-by-default-in-Windows-10-33da0077-770c-4bda-b61e-8c8e8ca70ac7


No *beep*! And that can't be turned off? But if I save to C (SSD), saving is instant. How does that add up?

Posted by: pandy Oct 14 2017, 07:05 PM

Beep should be another word for *beep*. cool.gif

I'm seriously contemplating to get Win7 and start over. I haven't installed many programs so no big deal. It' would buy me at least to years and by then Win10 may be superseded by something more reasonable - or something even worse. wacko.gif

Excuse me for any typos. I'm for once quite pleasantly pissed. cool.gif

Posted by: pandy Oct 14 2017, 07:06 PM

s*h*i*t ninja.gif

Posted by: CharlesEF Oct 14 2017, 08:09 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 14 2017, 07:03 PM) *

QUOTE(CharlesEF @ Oct 14 2017, 06:55 PM) *

I think that delay in saving files is because Win10 defaults to save on OneDrive (cloud). See https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Files-save-to-OneDrive-by-default-in-Windows-10-33da0077-770c-4bda-b61e-8c8e8ca70ac7


No *beep*! And that can't be turned off? But if I save to C (SSD), saving is instant. How does that add up?

I think it only affects documents and pictures. Yes, according to the link it can be changed to PC only.

Posted by: pandy Oct 14 2017, 08:44 PM

I meant to read it tomorrow. But I read it now. I've already disabled the cloud thingy. Then its settings shouldn't matter. Or?

I don't find Cloud in settings. So I can't peak at its settings or turn it on again. Maybe I'll figure it out tomorrow. blush.gif

Posted by: Christian J Oct 15 2017, 04:41 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 15 2017, 02:02 AM) *

It's from my old puter. It was D there too and saving was instant.

An old HDD like that seems likely to start making read/write errors. This may or may not be the cause of those strange icon glitches as well. Don't know if the delays are a sign it's about to break down, but run chkdsk on it just in case. I'd probably get a new one anyway (and make backups of course).

A few other ideas (but I don't know much about this):

- File system bugs between WinXP and Win10.

- Incompatibility between the new PC and older HDD models.

- A loose connector somewhere.

- Insufficient cooling.

Posted by: Christian J Oct 15 2017, 04:45 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 15 2017, 02:03 AM) *

QUOTE(CharlesEF @ Oct 14 2017, 06:55 PM) *

I think that delay in saving files is because Win10 defaults to save on OneDrive (cloud). See https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Files-save-to-OneDrive-by-default-in-Windows-10-33da0077-770c-4bda-b61e-8c8e8ca70ac7


No *beep*! And that can't be turned off?

Sure it can, in any case I think you need to associate your devices with a MS account for Onedrive to work. I uninstalled it first thing. wacko.gif

Posted by: CharlesEF Oct 15 2017, 11:26 AM

Well, maybe that is not your problem after all. Just thought I'd mention it.

Posted by: pandy Oct 15 2017, 05:52 PM

It can happen on E as well, it's just that I haven't saved there more than a few times. Both drives aren't likely to go bad at the same time. And it doesn't always happen. Oh well, it seems Win10 just doesn't like me. It's mutual. glare.gif

Posted by: CharlesEF Oct 15 2017, 10:20 PM

Is there a chance the 2 drives have spun down (power saver mode), from not being used? If yes, then it would take some time to spin back up to save a file

Posted by: Christian J Oct 16 2017, 04:28 AM

Also pandy mentioned one of the disks were Read Only when first installed, makes you wonder if it's related somehow.

Posted by: pandy Oct 16 2017, 05:13 AM

QUOTE(CharlesEF @ Oct 16 2017, 05:20 AM) *

Is there a chance the 2 drives have spun down (power saver mode), from not being used? If yes, then it would take some time to spin back up to save a file


Yes, that could be the case sometimes, but not always. Or maybe, if it happens faster than I'm used to. I'm not very productive on this machine as you may have understood, so I don't save that often. Is there a setting for that, for individual drives I mean? I'll try to search the peculiar settings app (is it an app?)
.

Posted by: pandy Oct 16 2017, 05:18 AM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 16 2017, 11:28 AM) *

Also pandy mentioned one of the disks were Read Only when first installed, makes you wonder if it's related somehow.


Yes and that was actually D.

BTW I have been contemplating to get a new drive as you suggested, a second SSD. I have room for that. And sort of divide documents between drives. Keep the more active stuff on the SSD and have the current D more for storage. But they are pricy those things and the computer alone was a setback. Alternatively get a new HDD. I can always use the current D for storage outside the computer. I have one of those USB racks, don't remember what they are called.

Posted by: pandy Oct 16 2017, 05:21 AM

Talking about that, Win10 still doesn't let me get access to the occasional folder of file. But I found a reg hack that added "Take ownership" to the context menu and that fixes it every time. The peculiar thing is that I ran it on every folder when I installed it. wacko.gif

Posted by: pandy Oct 16 2017, 05:27 AM

Imagine I actually hated XP too at first. I was sort of forced to get it, for the same reason I got 10 now. But I must confessed that in that case I was influenced by the XP hate that was widespread at the time. I don't think it was bad at all. But 2000 was my favourite. And actually 95 for its ease of use. cool.gif

Posted by: Christian J Oct 16 2017, 10:11 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 16 2017, 12:13 PM) *

Is there a setting for that, for individual drives I mean? I'll try to search the peculiar settings app (is it an app?)

I don't know, I only have one HDD. Go to Settings > Power > Additional settings (top right) > Change plan settings > Change advanced power settings, and there you can't find the settings for turning off the HDD. blink.gif I use the High Performance preset, and in there the HDD is set to turn off after 0 minutes (=never). IIRC it's healthier for HDDs to run all time.

QUOTE
BTW I have been contemplating to get a new drive as you suggested, a second SSD. I have room for that. And sort of divide documents between drives. Keep the more active stuff on the SSD and have the current D more for storage. But they are pricy those things and the computer alone was a setback. Alternatively get a new HDD.

When it comes to speed, SSD is not worth it for document or even movies, IMO. Maybe it's more reliable than HDD though, time will tell.

QUOTE
I can always use the current D for storage outside the computer. I have one of those USB racks, don't remember what they are called.

Run chkdsk on it just in case, even though it usually takes hours. If it's starting making errors maybe it's not reliable anymore. My old PC's HDD started getting more errors the last couple of years, I recall it messed up the .ini file for my Opera browser.

QUOTE
Talking about that, Win10 still doesn't let me get access to the occasional folder of file.

Can't remember any such problems, except that XAMPP was not allowed access to the Documents folder for security reasons.

QUOTE
Imagine I actually hated XP too at first.

Seems we found the common denominator! tongue.gif I liked both XP and Vista. Win95 was terrible due to the slow hardware at the time, other than that I can't remember much about it.

Posted by: CharlesEF Oct 16 2017, 12:47 PM

Other than the setting in the 'Power Plan', I'm not sure how to prevent other drives from going to sleep. Maybe that 1 setting controls all HDD's?

Posted by: Christian J Oct 16 2017, 01:59 PM

Separate controls sounds like overkill to me. But will all HDDs be awakened at the same time, or separately when needed?

Posted by: CharlesEF Oct 16 2017, 07:34 PM

Seems to me 1 setting can control all drives. I did not write Windows and MS didn't ask for my help. But, if I did write it I would use 1 setting for all drives. The sleep clock starts when a drive is finished reading/writing. The sleep clock resets when the drive is accessed. Therefore, only drives that are needed will wake up, not all at once.

Posted by: pandy Oct 17 2017, 06:07 AM

I think they awake separately, at least they used to. I could hear that on my old machine. Probably on this too, but I haven't payed attention to it.

Posted by: Christian J Oct 18 2017, 04:27 AM

What sleep settings did you use? Any progress?

BTW there's a major update due any day now...

Posted by: pandy Oct 18 2017, 07:51 AM

I haven't changed that. It's set to 30 minutes.

I'm actually contemplating reinstalling Windows. I don't think all these problems (and I haven't mentioned all) feels normal. I ran the error checking tool at an early stage. It found errors and said it corrected them. Made no difference. But errors in a fresh install doesn't feel normal.

Posted by: Christian J Oct 18 2017, 10:22 AM

Leave the HDDs running to rule out that possibility.

There's a Windows Reset option in Updates and Security > Recovery, that supposedly reinstalls Windows but still lets you keep your files (so it seems different from the old Restore feature). It can also be found in Defender > Device performance & Health > Fresh Start. Might be worth a try (though one wonders why it's called different things in different places).

But if you got a hardware problem, reinstalling Windows won't help. It doesn't have to be the HDDs either. You might check the RAM with memtest86, don't know how to test other components alas.

Also, reinstalling Windows won't help if there's something wrong with the Windows installation file/disc, so you might download a new copy just in case.


Posted by: pandy Oct 18 2017, 04:34 PM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 18 2017, 05:22 PM) *

Leave the HDDs running to rule out that possibility.

You mean disable sleep?

QUOTE
There's a Windows Reset option in Updates and Security > Recovery, that supposedly reinstalls Windows but still lets you keep your files (so it seems different from the old Restore feature). It can also be found in Defender > Device performance & Health > Fresh Start. Might be worth a try (though one wonders why it's called different things in different places).


From what I've read Reset is not reinstall. It just sets everything back to the state it was before you started to fiddle with things.

QUOTE
But if you got a hardware problem, reinstalling Windows won't help. It doesn't have to be the HDDs either. You might check the RAM with memtest86, don't know how to test other components alas.


I don't think it's a hardware problem. Don't see how that could have this effect. Or all of these effects, I should say. BTW another thing is that all of a sudden keyboard shortcuts (to run programs) are lost. They are back after reboot. unsure.gif

QUOTE
Also, reinstalling Windows won't help if there's something wrong with the Windows installation file/disc, so you might download a new copy just in case.


Yeah, that what I thought I would do. Put it on a USB stick. Or there seems to be an option to run the installation directly if Win10 is already installed. Hmm. Can't format then, I suppose. But that shouldn't be needed.

I'll see. I'll give it a little more time. It's actually like kind of vacation not not have access to all your programs. If I wait too long the amount of email that will pour down will kill me though. Just use webmail for now.

Posted by: Christian J Oct 18 2017, 05:56 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 18 2017, 11:34 PM) *

You mean disable sleep?

Yes. Disable all the energy save features, except for the monitor maybe. Seems the Advanced power save settings let you do things to PCI Express and USB as well. unsure.gif

QUOTE
From what I've read Reset is not reinstall. It just sets everything back to the state it was before you started to fiddle with things.

Apparently Reset and Fresh Start are two different things: https://www.howtogeek.com/265054/how-to-easily-reinstall-windows-10-without-the-bloatware/ but yes the linked page doesn't sound like even Fresh Start actually downloads anything new.

There are also several Troubleshoot programs you might try, but I suppose one needs to know what to troubleshoot first.

QUOTE
I don't think it's a hardware problem. Don't see how that could have this effect. Or all of these effects, I should say.

Those duplicate desktop.ini icons (and the unclickable ones) sounded like disk write errors from what I've read (are they still like that?). Maybe lost permissions could be due to corrupted config files as well, but admittedly I barely know anything about HDDs. Also, would any of those files be kept on the HDD and not the SSD? I know even less about SSDs...

If the RAM isn't working properly maybe data can get corrupted before it's saved to disk, but then I guess you'd also get more serious problems like unstable programs.

QUOTE
BTW another thing is that all of a sudden keyboard shortcuts (to run programs) are lost. They are back after reboot. unsure.gif

Is it a USB or wireless keyboard, and is the connection OK? Have you installed its driver (probably needed for special buttons)?

Posted by: pandy Oct 18 2017, 06:56 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE
I don't think it's a hardware problem. Don't see how that could have this effect. Or all of these effects, I should say.

Those duplicate desktop.ini icons (and the unclickable ones) sounded like disk write errors from what I've read (are they still like that?). Maybe lost permissions could be due to corrupted config files as well, but admittedly I barely know anything about HDDs. Also, would any of those files be kept on the HDD and not the SSD? I know even less about SSDs...


All icons are on the desktop, so on C, the SSD. The not clickable icons were file icons. File assosiations didn't stick, but that corrected itself apart from Photos not wanting to let go, but I uninstalled it to punish it. There may still be problems with other file types. I haven't gotten very far...


QUOTE
If the RAM isn't working properly maybe data can get corrupted before it's saved to disk, but then I guess you'd also get more serious problems like unstable programs.


Yeah, everything is just dandy, except Windows don't want to obey me.

QUOTE

QUOTE
BTW another thing is that all of a sudden keyboard shortcuts (to run programs) are lost. They are back after reboot. unsure.gif

Is it a USB or wireless keyboard, and is the connection OK? Have you installed its driver (probably needed for special buttons)?


USB and it has never needed any drivers. If the keyboard were the problem I wouldn't be able to type and I am. Windows all of a sudden seems to forget the keybord shortcuts I've assigned to different programs. All of them, at the same time. When I reboot it's fine again. It may or may not happen the next session.

Posted by: pandy Oct 18 2017, 07:40 PM

Forgot to say, the two desktop.ini files are normal. Here's one page that explains it.
https://www.howtogeek.com/198704/why-are-there-two-desktop.ini-files-on-windows-desktops/
Still don't get how two files with exactly the same name can exist side by side. Or that you don't have two.

Posted by: Christian J Oct 19 2017, 05:22 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 19 2017, 01:56 AM) *

USB and it has never needed any drivers. If the keyboard were the problem I wouldn't be able to type and I am. Windows all of a sudden seems to forget the keybord shortcuts I've assigned to different programs. All of them, at the same time.

AFAIK mice with special buttons only work if you install special software, are not all keyboards like that too? OTOH your keyboard special buttons shouldn't work intermittently then.

QUOTE
When I reboot it's fine again. It may or may not happen the next session.

I used to have intermittent USB connection problems on my Vista PC, but it didn't affect my USB mouse, just other peripherals like cameras. Maybe it was because I didn't "disconnect" them properly in the Task Manager.

QUOTE
Forgot to say, the two desktop.ini files are normal.

Good, that just leaves the HDD file icons.

Posted by: pandy Oct 19 2017, 07:06 AM

I'm not talking about special keys (but the few I have work as they should without installation). I'm talking about assigning keyboard shortcuts to icons. Like I want Notetab to start when I press CTRL + ALT + N.

It's basically the same as with file associations. Didn't want to stick at first and now Windows all of a sudden can forget.

Posted by: Christian J Oct 19 2017, 09:33 AM

Yes that sounds more like a software issue. Definately not the keyboard, and if all these things were from multiple disk errors the HDD ought to crash any second - unless all the problems boil down to one single user profile file that's broken - could that be the case?

Posted by: pandy Oct 19 2017, 06:22 PM

Alas no. I created another user with admin status early on. Same scheiße.

I've decided to reinstall. This can't be normal. I've heard other people have no problems to run x86 programs outside their assigned folder. That's pretty essencial for programs that use ini files, especially if you want them to be portable. I haven't been able to figure out where Windows keeps the shadow copy it's supposed to create and use instead of the real one. It most centainly don't have the same name as the original. This alone will be a problem for me in the long run.

But I'll be on computer vacation a little longer. I actually enjoy it. And I want to have enough free time to do things properly.

Posted by: Christian J Nov 7 2017, 05:14 PM

Any luck?

Now I had Win10 prompt me to choose a program for opening a file that I had already associated with a program. The short list of suggestions in the prompt of course only included Windows' own "apps". But after re-selecting the correct program in the "default by file extension" list it suddenly worked again. Don't know if it's a coincidence this happened soon after installing the large fall update.

Posted by: pandy Nov 7 2017, 05:24 PM

Now you know how it feels...

I haven't done anything about it yet. I've had other things on my mind. But I will reinstall. Once I get around to it.

Posted by: Christian J Nov 8 2017, 04:02 AM

It's happened to me a few times before when the PC was new (right after the 2017 spring Creator's update), but not until now after that. That's what makes me suspect the updates. I also recall reading others reporting the same thing. If it's a common phenomenon maybe reinstallation of Win10 won't help.

Does it happen frequently for you?


Posted by: pandy Nov 8 2017, 06:27 AM

Yes and no. The associations I have stick. At least if the file is on C, it works now. But I still can't set associations from within the programs themselvs, not in most cases anyway.

Another thing that doesn't work that I haven't meantioned is to make programs start with Windows. It works with maybe 1/3 of the programs I've tried with. No go with the rest. Neither using the programs' Options nor adding an icon to the strartup folder works.

Yeah, as I said, every problem I've had seems common (the associations, the icons, the UAC thing...). But I've got them all. That's why I think the installation may be wonky.

I've stuck with the Windows firewall and anti virus for now. Isn't it ironic that they force OS updated on you but you have to update the virus definitions manually? That's about the only thing I would be fine with if it happened without my consent. wacko.gif

Posted by: Christian J Nov 8 2017, 08:12 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Nov 8 2017, 12:27 PM) *

I still can't set associations from within the programs themselvs, not in most cases anyway.

Haven't tried that myself, IIRC. Online tutorials don't seem to mention that method either (from a quick search).

QUOTE
Another thing that doesn't work that I haven't meantioned is to make programs start with Windows. It works with maybe 1/3 of the programs I've tried with. No go with the rest. Neither using the programs' Options nor adding an icon to the strartup folder works.

Haven't tried that either. Do the programs show in the Startup tab in Task Manager?

QUOTE
Yeah, as I said, every problem I've had seems common (the associations, the icons, the UAC thing...). But I've got them all. That's why I think the installation may be wonky.

Or you're a power user. cool.gif I for one haven't fiddled that much with my installation.

QUOTE
I've stuck with the Windows firewall and anti virus for now. Isn't it ironic that they force OS updated on you but you have to update the virus definitions manually? That's about the only thing I would be fine with if it happened without my consent. wacko.gif

Seems to happen if you're on a Metered connection. It might be better if Windows searched for Defender updates but let you decide when to download them.


Posted by: pandy Nov 8 2017, 11:11 AM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Nov 8 2017, 02:12 PM) *

QUOTE(pandy @ Nov 8 2017, 12:27 PM) *

I still can't set associations from within the programs themselvs, not in most cases anyway.

Haven't tried that myself, IIRC. Online tutorials don't seem to mention that method either (from a quick search).



Never? Most programs have it in options. For example, I want IrfanView associated with basically all image files except RAW formats. There's a heck of a lot of image formats you can encounter even if I don't create images in most of them myself. So much easier to do it from within Irfan than going through the mess with one extension at the time. Same with Notetab. I want everything text to be openened in Notetab.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Another thing that doesn't work that I haven't meantioned is to make programs start with Windows. It works with maybe 1/3 of the programs I've tried with. No go with the rest. Neither using the programs' Options nor adding an icon to the strartup folder works.

Haven't tried that either. Do the programs show in the Startup tab in Task Manager?


If I've put them there. Still doesn't work mostly. If it doesn't work and I have tried to do it from the program's settings the icon doesn't show up.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Yeah, as I said, every problem I've had seems common (the associations, the icons, the UAC thing...). But I've got them all. That's why I think the installation may be wonky.

Or you're a power user. cool.gif I for one haven't fiddled that much with my installation.


But it's all basic stuff. Except maybe UAC that's just stupid. Doesn't everyone want to open files by clicking or drag and drop?


QUOTE

QUOTE
I've stuck with the Windows firewall and anti virus for now. Isn't it ironic that they force OS updated on you but you have to update the virus definitions manually? That's about the only thing I would be fine with if it happened without my consent. wacko.gif

Seems to happen if you're on a Metered connection. It might be better if Windows searched for Defender updates but let you decide when to download them.


Ah, that could be it. But Windows does just that for me. Tells me there is an update. Defender is the AV thing, right?
Still stupid. It's a small file, or should be anyway. What does it matter if the connection is metered?

Posted by: Christian J Nov 8 2017, 12:16 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Nov 8 2017, 05:11 PM) *

Never?

Not on Win10, IIRC.

QUOTE
I want IrfanView associated with basically all image files except RAW formats. There's a heck of a lot of image formats you can encounter even if I don't create images in most of them myself. So much easier to do it from within Irfan than going through the mess with one extension at the time.

I found things like .mp3 in Irfanview's list as well, so I opted for setting them individually. I almost never encounter unusual file formats, but when I do I might actually prefer Windows to ask me than having them open in the completely wrong program.

BTW, now I saw that Irfanview's file association menus says "START AS ADMIN(!)" at the top, so that seems important...

QUOTE
Haven't tried that either. Do the programs show in the Startup tab in Task Manager?
QUOTE
If I've put them there. Still doesn't work mostly. If it doesn't work and I have tried to do it from the program's settings the icon doesn't show up.

Are these the same programs that cause a UAC prompt when you start them? And does any of this have something to do with unsigned programs? I bet many older small programs are unsigned.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Or you're a power user. cool.gif I for one haven't fiddled that much with my installation.

But it's all basic stuff. Except maybe UAC that's just stupid. Doesn't everyone want to open files by clicking or drag and drop?

I was thinking maybe you change more of that basic stuff than most users. As for the UAC, I understand it's not just an extra warning, but also prevents privilege elevation by design. In Vista you could disable that kind of lockdown, but again I haven't tried that with 10.

QUOTE

Ah, that could be it. But Windows does just that for me. Tells me there is an update. Defender is the AV thing, right?
Still stupid. It's a small file, or should be anyway. What does it matter if the connection is metered?

Sometimes the files are large, like 10MB.



Posted by: pandy Nov 9 2017, 07:22 AM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Nov 8 2017, 06:16 PM) *

QUOTE
I want IrfanView associated with basically all image files except RAW formats. There's a heck of a lot of image formats you can encounter even if I don't create images in most of them myself. So much easier to do it from within Irfan than going through the mess with one extension at the time.

I found things like .mp3 in Irfanview's list as well, so I opted for setting them individually. I almost never encounter unusual file formats, but when I do I might actually prefer Windows to ask me than having them open in the completely wrong program.

BTW, now I saw that Irfanview's file association menus says "START AS ADMIN(!)" at the top, so that seems important...


I don't find that option. But it doesn't matter since no other way to make programs run as admin works...

You can choose Images Only. And even ticking the boxes one by one is a lot faster than doing it through the Windows settings. Which doesn't always work for me either. Me, since I want most image formats, choose Images Only and then uncheck the few I don't want.

QUOTE

QUOTE
Haven't tried that either. Do the programs show in the Startup tab in Task Manager?
QUOTE
If I've put them there. Still doesn't work mostly. If it doesn't work and I have tried to do it from the program's settings the icon doesn't show up.

Are these the same programs that cause a UAC prompt when you start them? And does any of this have something to do with unsigned programs? I bet many older small programs are unsigned.


I don't know. Almost all programs got the UAC prompt. I turned it off and don't remember now.

QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE
Or you're a power user. cool.gif I for one haven't fiddled that much with my installation.

But it's all basic stuff. Except maybe UAC that's just stupid. Doesn't everyone want to open files by clicking or drag and drop?

I was thinking maybe you change more of that basic stuff than most users. As for the UAC, I understand it's not just an extra warning, but also prevents privilege elevation by design. In Vista you could disable that kind of lockdown, but again I haven't tried that with 10.


Come on, clicking on files and drag and drop are advanced use? Everyone, except maybe you, does it. tongue.gif

QUOTE
QUOTE

Ah, that could be it. But Windows does just that for me. Tells me there is an update. Defender is the AV thing, right?
Still stupid. It's a small file, or should be anyway. What does it matter if the connection is metered?

Sometimes the files are large, like 10MB.



10 MB isn't large these days. If that's too much the user can't browse the web either. I'd say it corresponds to about 10-15 pages at a newspaper site.

Posted by: Christian J Nov 9 2017, 10:00 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Nov 9 2017, 01:22 PM) *

I don't find that option. But it doesn't matter since no other way to make programs run as admin works...

It's just a text message, I suppose it means you should start Irfanview as admin. But it's not mentioned in the Help (which only talks about XP), while the Help's FAQ says:

Q: If I start IrfanView on Windows 7, the system asks me each time about the start as Administrator, why?

A: Somebody, not IrfanView, set the program properties to "Run as administrator". Disable this option (right click on IrfanView icon/EXE, Properties, tab: Compatibility) and run IrfanView normally. Actually, no option should be selected in the Compatibility tab for IrfanView.

unsure.gif

QUOTE
You can choose Images Only.

Oh, missed that.

QUOTE
I don't know. Almost all programs got the UAC prompt. I turned it off and don't remember now.

I only get it for old and/or small ones, and sometimes when updating browsers.

QUOTE
Come on, clicking on files and drag and drop are advanced use? Everyone, except maybe you, does it. tongue.gif

No I meant maybe you customize a lot of simple things, which adds to the bug count.


Posted by: Christian J May 20 2018, 05:39 PM

Now I noticed that you can make the Windows scrollbars always show (instead of shrinking) in Settings > Ease of access > Display. Don't know if this was new to feature update 1803 or I just missed it before.

There are also new privacy settings in 1803 where you can decide if apps like Cortana should be allowed access to your contacts, document, pictures etc (all enabled by default).


Posted by: pandy May 20 2018, 07:02 PM

QUOTE(Christian J @ May 21 2018, 12:39 AM) *

1803


And that is? wacko.gif

Posted by: Christian J May 21 2018, 05:27 AM

https://www.howtogeek.com/340688/whats-coming-in-windows-10s-redstone-4-update-available-march-2018/

If you use Windows Update it's sneakily downloaded along with the latest security patches, so you can't avoid getting it unless you download the patches manually through your browser.

Posted by: pandy May 22 2018, 08:15 AM

Ah. I don't have that yet. But I must have gotten some update lately because the other day my UAC settings were changes and yesterday I discovered the Take Ownership extension was removed when I needed it.

Posted by: Christian J May 22 2018, 09:29 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ May 22 2018, 03:15 PM) *

Ah. I don't have that yet.

I got it in the download list a couple of weeks ago (I've waited a little before actually installing it).

After installation I at first got no sound from my headphones, fortunately simply unplugging them fixed it.

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