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> Preventing excessive horizontal resizing, Using CSS to prevent ugly page resizing
Shadeaux
post Apr 25 2007, 07:51 AM
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The powers that be at my company want one of the pages we are developing to only resize "so far". Previously, they claim, you could use a table in your banner - three cells, one empty in the center - and the page would stop horizontally shrinking at that empty cell. Currently, the page does not do this, and no application of anything I've found seems to prevent it.

I've tried max-width and min-width on everything from the body to a wrapper surrounding the content.
I've tried their table method.
I've tried something called "jello mold" where you assign padding and then override it with negative margins.

Nothing seems to work. Suggestions? I know I'm probably missing something stupid. Looking at code for too many days straight can do that to a guy...

David
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pandy
post Apr 25 2007, 08:13 AM
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'min-width' should work, but not in IE6. Try a modern version of the spacer gif. Put an empty DIV with a fixed width inside whatever you want to stop from shrinking too much. Ugly, but there it is.
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Effovex
post Apr 25 2007, 08:16 AM
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Edit: way to misread the post. Ignore me!

This post has been edited by Effovex: Apr 25 2007, 08:17 AM
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Shadeaux
post Apr 25 2007, 08:22 AM
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Well, I can try the spacer div in the empty table cell in the header (I HATE TABLES)

But I've tried min-width on the body, on a wrapper, etc...and I've tried the resizing in Firefox, IE7 and IE6 and it resizes to a tiny little box no matter what browser I use...so I don't think min-width is going to do it...
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pandy
post Apr 25 2007, 08:25 AM
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Well, as Effovex said before he deleted it, show us a sample page so we know what you mean. tongue.gif
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Shadeaux
post Apr 25 2007, 08:38 AM
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Okay - this page is FAR from ready for prime time, but it suffers the problem mentioned - it only renders properly in ie:

http://www.cglog.net/LPMS/lpmsindex.htm
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pandy
post Apr 25 2007, 09:14 AM
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Yeah, but it doesn't shrink in any browser that I can see? unsure.gif
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Shadeaux
post Apr 25 2007, 09:19 AM
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Maybe I mis-typed. We don't want the browser window to CLOSE beyond a certain point. The page stays correctly sized, but when you minimize the window and resize the browser, we'd like it to STOP resizing at a certain point...
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pandy
post Apr 25 2007, 09:48 AM
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You want to stop the browser window from getting too small? Dream on! tongue.gif

Actually, you can do that with JavaScript but it would be pure evil. You can't know what size I prefer and for what reasons and you certainly can't control the resolution of my screen. Forget about it. It would just make it worse.
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Shadeaux
post Apr 25 2007, 10:03 AM
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Well, that's what I said too...I think you're right. There is no reason / use for the browser window to be sized too narrow, but who am I to tell someone not to do it (lol) Okay...thanks.
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Darin McGrew
post Apr 25 2007, 11:47 AM
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QUOTE
Yeah, but it doesn't shrink in any browser that I can see?
In Opera, hit Ctrl-F11. This turns on "Fit to width" which is rather aggressive about fixing overly wide designs so they fit in your browser window, no matter what misguided web authors do.
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Darin McGrew
post Apr 25 2007, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE
There is no reason / use for the browser window to be sized too narrow, but who am I to tell someone not to do it (lol)
See also "This page optimized for ..."
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Shadeaux
post Apr 25 2007, 12:53 PM
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Normally I'd agree with the optimized for, and the idea that controlling a viewer's browser is evil...but this application is somewhat different.

We are creating a web application that will be (eventually) published inside a government firewall and used only on a specific browser, specific version - very strictly controlled. No one will be browsing to this once all the data is in place, it will be something they go to specifically ... and with that in mind, and a not-so-high average computer skill level on the user side...we may still use java and set the size to remain static...

I was just hoping there was a way to control it with CSS...

David
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Darin McGrew
post Apr 25 2007, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE
We are creating a web application that will be (eventually) published inside a government firewall and used only on a specific browser, specific version - very strictly controlled.
In that case, accessibility requirements may be even more critical than for a normal web site. Be very wary of trying to "force" anything. Some of your users may have browsers for which "resizing the browser window" or "not resizing the browser window" are meaningless.
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Shadeaux
post Apr 25 2007, 01:21 PM
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All of our users will have IE6 and if / when they upgrade, it wil lbe IE7...they have no control over the settings to speak of...it's locked down. They use a standard workstation, so there won't be any differences across machines.

Dave
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Darin McGrew
post Apr 25 2007, 01:37 PM
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Good luck with that.

And FWIW, even MSIE lets the user override the fonts and font sizes specified by the author.
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pandy
post Apr 25 2007, 10:20 PM
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QUOTE(Darin McGrew @ Apr 25 2007, 08:08 PM) *

In that case, accessibility requirements may be even more critical than for a normal web site. Be very wary of trying to "force" anything. Some of your users may have browsers for which "resizing the browser window" or "not resizing the browser window" are meaningless.

Yeah, what happens the day a visually impaired person is employed? Does section 508 apply to employees or only to the public?
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Shadeaux
post Apr 26 2007, 07:55 AM
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Peace, my brothers.

I only asked the question because I was tasked to try and "find a way".

All of the concerns you have voiced are valid and important, and I already agreed with you (on a personal level) that forcing behavior on users (or employees) was bad.

It isn't completely in my control how this will be put together, I'm only helping code it. Pay, and hatred of starvation and all that.

David
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Peter1968
post Apr 26 2007, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Apr 26 2007, 01:20 PM) *

Yeah, what happens the day a visually impaired person is employed? Does section 508 apply to employees or only to the public?


Applies to the Federal Govt. of the US. towards its own employees and information *it* makes available to the American public. Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 has no legal force outside the US, nor to non-governmental websites or anyone else not receiving US federal funds to make a website or a contractor for the US Govt.

Knowing the way US employers work, they probably wouldn't hire a visually impaired person if the job required any amount of reading to begin with.

Legislation definitely favours the employer in the US.

The nitty gritty

This post has been edited by Peter1968: Apr 26 2007, 09:11 AM
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Shadeaux
post Apr 26 2007, 11:10 AM
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It was with 508 compliance in mind that I forced the design away from the tables my co-workers used to prefer and into the CSS box model...if the resizing issue is a 508 restriction, I'll have plenty of ammo to put a stop to it, but I'm having a hard time thinking of a handicap that would prevent people from using the page if they couldn't make it smaller...particularly when there is a point after which, if you shrink the entire page, it is no longer usable at all because all valuable content is off-screen. Visually impaired users would normally want a larger screen, and those who need to read it with text/voice interface won't care what size it is...what am I missing? And that is a serious question, not meant to be argumentative at all...I'm just not seeing the conflict between what I was asking about and 508 compliance.

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