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Posted by: pandy Dec 25 2016, 10:05 AM

My display is wonky and wonkier it gets for each day. Is there a way to find out if it's the screen or the video card that is BSODed? I haven't been able to borrow another screen, which would of course be the easiest way to find out.

It started with short, thin lines showing up in columns where there was a solid or close to solid color. Pure black, pure white and yellow weren't affected.

Now colors are garbled and solid color areas flicker (like the chrome of programs and windows, old Windows gray style).

How the problem manifests itself is affected by the display mode I choose on the screen. In Standard and sRGB mode light lines are rolling down the screen (much as it could look at a badly tuned old fat TV). If I choose Movie or Dynamics the rolling lines go away but colors look like they were designed by Disney.

The problem gets worse if I leave the computer idle. If I'm not working at it I leave a movie on so something happens on the screen.

I haven't made any changes lately, neither to the computer or its environment. Tried to turn speakers off and so on.

No biggie, I was contemplating getting a new screen anyway, so I'm thinking of getting that first, even if it's more expensive. But it's the worst time of the year, shops are jammed full with people, things get sold out and since I don't keep up with hardware it takes me some time to figure out what I want. sad.gif

WARNING: I really suck at hardware, so you need to talk to me like to a baby. cool.gif

Posted by: Christian J Dec 25 2016, 05:49 PM

You could try switching OS if you have more than one, to rule out some OS/video driver issue. You could also try changing video card driver. If your motherboard has an integrated video card you might try disabling the external one.

Also check that the computer doesn't overheat after being on for a while. Maybe it's full of dust?

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 01:08 PM

Alas I have only one OS now and one card. I've updated the driver, there was a newer one. Didn't change a thing. It isn't heat related. If anything it gets better over time, as long as something is happening on the screen, may it be me typing and clicking or a movie playing.

CODE
Maybe it's full of dust?

Certainly not! Really! angry.gif tongue.gif

I think you can see the pattern och colors shifts I get on this mobile picture. I can see it when I look at it on my phone, even if smoothed out a bit. Obviously I don't know how it fares on a computer screen. Look at the browser chrome and the light-blue forum menus.

I couldn't upload it. Guess it's too large and I don't want to downsize it so here goes.
https://s24.postimg.org/v2eb2u11x/screen.jpg

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 01:11 PM

And they downsized it even if I said they shouldn't. Oh well. tongue.gif

Posted by: Christian J Dec 26 2016, 03:30 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 26 2016, 07:08 PM) *

I think you can see the pattern och colors shifts I get on this mobile picture. I can see it when I look at it on my phone, even if smoothed out a bit. Obviously I don't know how it fares an a computer screen. Look at the browser chrome and the light-blue forum menus.

Yes I can see greenish distortions on the Windows menus.

That looks like a photo of the monitor screen. Do the distortions show up on screen captures too? That should determine if they come from the PC/video card or from the monitor.

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 03:57 PM

You don't see that raster pattern?

No, screen caps don't show it. I thought it always was that way. So what does that tell us? That it is the screen?

That is I don't think it shows. Wait, I'll take a screen cap and you can tell me. I can't determine if what I see is in the picture or on my screen. I uploaded one to my phone and thought it looked normal, but that was a while ago when I only had the lines.

Attached Image

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 04:00 PM

Here's one in Standard display mode. The other one was in Dynamic, so the colors should be more vivid than normal.

Attached Image

Posted by: Christian J Dec 26 2016, 04:36 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 26 2016, 09:57 PM) *

You don't see that raster pattern?

Yes I do, at least on the greenish parts.

QUOTE
No, screen caps don't show it. I thought it always was that way. So what does that tell us? That it is the screen?

Sounds like the screen to me (or the path to it). At least I don't think it's the video card or OS.

QUOTE
Wait, I'll take a screen cap and you can tell me.

That one looks normal...

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 05:10 PM

You are so clever! biggrin.gif Hmm. That's another way of saying I'm dumb, isn't it? unsure.gif

That's for the best, even if it's the most expensive option. As said, I was thinking of a new screen anyway. This is more than 7 years, so I guess it's time. I'll regret later that I didn't catch the after christmas sale, but my nerves are too fragile for that. sleep.gif

Thanks!

Of course, you realize that if I buy a new screen and the display still is garbled, it's all on your head, right? laugh.gif

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 05:15 PM

Hm, what's the path to the screen? I didn't know there was such a thing. blush.gif

It's good black and white aren't affected at all. It's totally OK to write here, use my editor and so on as long as I don't let my eyes wander outside the editing area. When I go to bed and turn off the light I see this flickering pattern before my eyes before I fall asleep. Maybe I'll throw a fit or go mad or something. wacko.gif

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 06:01 PM

BTW, what do you think about that screens get larger and larger but most of them keep the same resolution, 1920 x 1080? What's the use of a larger screen if the pixels are "stretched out"?

There are very few screens with a higher resolution than the above that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, but I've found a few, for instance this one. It's a little pricier than I was planning on paying.
http://www.elgiganten.se/product/datorer-tillbehor/bildskarm/AOC28U2879VF/aoc-u2879vf-28-4k-uhd-led-skarm


My first screen ever was a tiny, used NEC that had a very high resolution for that time. I've never had a sharper screen. So maybe the way to go is to choose a smaller screen. Or maybe two of them. My card allow for two screens so...

Posted by: Christian J Dec 26 2016, 07:34 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 26 2016, 11:10 PM) *

You are so clever! biggrin.gif Hmm. That's another way of saying I'm dumb, isn't it? unsure.gif

Not if I'm very clever. smile.gif

QUOTE
I'll regret later that I didn't catch the after christmas sale, but my nerves are too fragile for that. sleep.gif

Don't they just offload old junk anyway?

QUOTE
Of course, you realize that if I buy a new screen and the display still is garbled, it's all on your head, right? laugh.gif

Let's say I always give a full money-back guarantee on my consultations. cool.gif


Posted by: Christian J Dec 26 2016, 07:35 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 26 2016, 11:15 PM) *

Hm, what's the path to the screen? I didn't know there was such a thing. blush.gif

I was thinking of the monitor cable, parts of the motherboard, etc. Don't know anything about that myself.


Posted by: Christian J Dec 26 2016, 07:58 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 27 2016, 12:01 AM) *

BTW, what do you think about that screens get larger and larger but most of them keep the same resolution, 1920 x 1080? What's the use of a larger screen if the pixels are "stretched out"?

I suppose such screens are meant to be viewed from a larger distance. Good if you have a large desk.

QUOTE
There are very few screens with a higher resolution than the above that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, but I've found a few, for instance this one. It's a little pricier than I was planning on paying.
http://www.elgiganten.se/product/datorer-tillbehor/bildskarm/AOC28U2879VF/aoc-u2879vf-28-4k-uhd-led-skarm

I bought this one a year ago: https://www.komplett.se/product/838080/datorutrustning/bildskarm/bildskarmar/dell-25-led-ultrasharp-u2515h# and like it a lot, but the high pixel density makes everything on screen look very small, so I had to increase the DPI font scaling to 120% in Windows (which doesn't work flawlessly in older Windows versions) and also increase my browser default zoom level. The AOC screen you link seems to have even higher pixel density than my Dell screen, so keep that in mind. If you play computer games, higher resolutions may also require a more powerful video card.


Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 08:00 PM

QUOTE
I was thinking of the monitor cable, parts of the motherboard, etc. Don't know anything about that myself.

Oh, that! Me, I'm well aware of the cable. cool.gif I thought you meant something more esoteric.

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 08:12 PM

CODE
I suppose such screens are meant to be viewed from a larger distance. Good if you have a large desk.


Maybe, but most screens are well over 20" now, so that's what people get. I do have a large desk and don't like to sit close to the monitor BTW.


QUOTE
I bought this one a year ago: https://www.komplett.se/product/838080/datorutrustning/bildskarm/bildskarmar/dell-25-led-ultrasharp-u2515h# and like it a lot, but the high pixel density makes everything on screen look very small, so I had to increase the DPI font scaling to 120% in Windows (which doesn't work flawlessly in older Windows versions) and also increase my browser default zoom level. The AOC screen you link seems to have even higher pixel density than my Dell screen, so keep that in mind. If you play computer games, higher resolutions may also require a more powerful video card.


Hmm. That's a point. As it has been so far for me each screen I've bought has been larger than the previous one and they must have had the right resolution for their size since text has always looked OK with default settings. Are you satisfied with the screen otherwise?

It sucks shops have so little in stock nowadays. It's hard to get to actually look at the stuff before you buy. I'd also like the screen to have a stand that can be adjusted in several directions, not just tilted as it usually is. I'm tired of adjusting my chair go get my head in the right level instead of just lowering or raising the screen.

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 09:53 PM

It really was quite stupid of me not to figure out the screen cap thing. It was the first thing I tried and I should have understood what it meant that the disturbance didn't show in the cap.

That's something to keep in mind. When one knows one isn't very good at something it's easy to get mental congestion and not even try to draw conclusions from the things one actually is capable of understanding.

Posted by: pandy Dec 26 2016, 10:39 PM

Found an interesting page here.
http://isthisretina.com/
You may also need this (the table).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_size#Display_sizes_of_common_TVs_and_computer_monitors

My current monitor is 23.5" (according to my tape measure). I sit about 70 cm from it, closer when I lean forward to type. I should sit at least 94 centimeters from it. That AOC screen should be good at 56 cm and the sweat spot for your screen is 74 cm.

This was also enlightening (for me).
https://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-4k-uhd-3840-x-2160-experience/

Posted by: Christian J Dec 27 2016, 09:06 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 27 2016, 02:12 AM) *

CODE
I suppose such screens are meant to be viewed from a larger distance. Good if you have a large desk.


Maybe, but most screens are well over 20" now, so that's what people get.

Also it's usually the screen width that grows, not the height.

QUOTE
As it has been so far for me each screen I've bought has been larger than the previous one and they must have had the right resolution for their size since text has always looked OK with default settings.

I've noticed that images look smaller in every new monitor I've bought, e.g. my avatar on this forum is just 20x17mm large on my screen (without zooming). Each new generation of web sites use larger images to compensate, but it becomes noticeable on older sites.

QUOTE
Are you satisfied with the screen otherwise?

Haven't tested or calibrated it, but to my naked eye it looks great. The stand can be adjusted in lots of ways, including up/down.

I did get some software bugs after I bought it, can't say if it's my old Vista OS, or the drivers for the screen or video card. First the screen wouldn't wake up from energy save mode, but this was fixed after using an older video driver. I still often get a black Windows login screen, I can usually type in my password but can't see anything on the login screen.

QUOTE
It sucks shops have so little in stock nowadays. It's hard to get to actually look at the stuff before you buy.

Even then I've read that quality is not consistent between individual screens, especially in older models.

Posted by: Christian J Dec 27 2016, 09:14 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 27 2016, 04:39 AM) *

Found an interesting page here.
http://isthisretina.com/

That was a practical tool. When I shopped for my screen I had to do annoying manual calculations, because manufacturers wouldn't publish proper specs. dry.gif

QUOTE
This was also enlightening (for me).
https://pcmonitors.info/articles/the-4k-uhd-3840-x-2160-experience/

Some good points there, especially about programs that can't be scaled. Some of my programs got blurred text with DPI scaling, so I've had to disable it for them individually (can be done by right-clicking the program short-cut > Properties > Compatibility).

Posted by: pandy Dec 27 2016, 05:27 PM

Yes, I also started calculating PPI and wasn't sure I got it right, so that page was good.

I'm sort of thinking now that getting two screens would be the best option. One the size I have now or a little less and one smaller. Smaller are hard to find now, especially if you don't want a wide screen. I'm thinking a screen with the old proportions would be nice for the smaller one.

I spoke with a neighbor and asked if they could lend me a screen for testing. They only had their laptops. They are moving to a smaller place and had just thrown a perfectly fine really large screen away. They were going to ask me if I wanted it but decided I probably had good stuff already. Yeah. Right. My typical luck! sad.gif

Posted by: Christian J Dec 27 2016, 05:47 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 27 2016, 11:27 PM) *

I'm sort of thinking now that getting two screens would be the best option. One the size I have now or a little less and one smaller. Smaller are hard to find now, especially if you don't want a wide screen. I'm thinking a screen with the old proportions would be nice for the smaller one.

You might rotate a wide screen into portrait mode. It also seems possible to split the video card output on two screens side by side (but of course you'll get a seam in the middle).

QUOTE
I spoke with a neighbor and asked if they could lend me a screen for testing. They only had their laptops. They are moving to a smaller place and had just thrown a perfectly fine really large screen away. They were going to ask me if I wanted it but decided I probably had good stuff already. Yeah. Right. My typical luck! sad.gif

You can also connect a newer TV screen...

Posted by: pandy Dec 27 2016, 07:06 PM

QUOTE
You might rotate a wide screen into portrait mode.

Yeah, but that would be odd.

QUOTE
It also seems possible to split the video card output on two screens side by side (but of course you'll get a seam in the middle).


Yes, that's what I meant. But maybe that's odd with different resolutions. I may try that whatever way I go now. I'm thinking the smaller screen for editor, email and that kind of things. A fairly simple screen would probably suffice.

QUOTE
You can also connect a newer TV screen...


Never! I've thrown my TV out and I don't plan to start paying the license again.

Posted by: Christian J Dec 28 2016, 07:40 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 28 2016, 01:06 AM) *

But maybe that's odd with different resolutions.

Yes you should probably use two identical models for that.

QUOTE
I'm thinking the smaller screen for editor, email and that kind of things.

Might work, but if the editor screen is located on the side maybe your neck will start to hurt after a while. unsure.gif

BTW, wouldn't it be possible to connect your neighbour's laptop to your monitor for testing?


Posted by: Christian J Dec 28 2016, 09:15 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 28 2016, 01:06 AM) *

Never! I've thrown my TV out and I don't plan to start paying the license again.

A friend uses his TV as a computer monitor, this seems to work fine with Windows10.

Posted by: pandy Dec 28 2016, 11:35 AM

Sure. But if you buy a new TV set they report you to Radiotjänst. dry.gif
And I doubt a TV is cheaper, so no reason to choose that.

Posted by: pandy Dec 28 2016, 11:00 PM

What you've said about ppi and scaling got me thinking. Maybe it's better to stick with what you know. I can't find any shop with those larger resolution screens in stock so I can't have a look at them easily.

What do you think of this one? It's huge, same resolution as yours and same PPI as my current. Should mean lots of space but same size of fonts and icons as I'm used to, PPI around 93. I do feel the screen is a little crowded now.
http://www.elgiganten.se/product/datorer-tillbehor/bildskarm/BDM3270QP2/philips-brilliance-bdm3270qp2-31-5-led-skarm
Philips doesn't feel that hot, but I don't have budget for the really hot screens anyway so...

Turns out I can borrow a half decent screen a while if I want. I may go for that option to buy some time.

Posted by: Christian J Dec 29 2016, 08:31 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 29 2016, 05:00 AM) *

What you've said about ppi and scaling got me thinking. Maybe it's better to stick with what you know.

Yes, if you get higher PPI things will look smaller (unless you can scale them up), there's no way around that. At the same time, it's hard to tell in advance how small you can get used to. Squinting your eyes is not fun, OTOH you might squint either way: because of blurry low PPI or because of small icons when using high PPI. wacko.gif Perhaps you can lower the screen resolution if things become too small.

QUOTE
What do you think of this one?

No idea. From what I've read, IPS panels are the best all-round screens (at least in these price ranges): http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php

QUOTE
It's huge, same resolution as yours and same PPI as my current.

...and since a larger screen is placed farther away, you can get away with lower PPI. There's no point in having a higher PPI than your eyes can notice from a given distance.

QUOTE
I do feel the screen is a little crowded now.

Horizontally or vertically? Some large screens may be large in the wrong places, so to speak, e.g. with more width but no height.

QUOTE
Turns out I can borrow a half decent screen a while if I want. I may go for that option to buy some time.

If it's better than your current one you'll get spoiled, then you'll need a new one that's at least as good or feel disappointed. tongue.gif


Posted by: pandy Dec 29 2016, 09:37 AM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Dec 29 2016, 02:31 PM) *

No idea. From what I've read, IPS panels are the best all-round screens (at least in these price ranges): http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php

Thanks. Yet another thing to learn. Seems the Philips screen uses VA that according the page you linked to is something in-between IPS and TN. unsure.gif

QUOTE
QUOTE
It's huge, same resolution as yours and same PPI as my current.

...and since a larger screen is placed farther away, you can get away with lower PPI. There's no point in having a higher PPI than your eyes can notice from a given distance.


Yes, but there's an additional problem. I like sitting far from the screen and I have room for it. But the fact that I need glasses nowadays force me to sit at a distance at which the glasses give a sharp image... sad.gif

QUOTE
QUOTE
I do feel the screen is a little crowded now.

Horizontally or vertically? Some large screens may be large in the wrong places, so to speak, e.g. with more width but no height.

In all directions. My current screen is much larger and have much higher res. than my previous one, so I thought I would be able to have both two and three windows open side by side, but as you know it doesn't work that way. OK, I can have two windows, but then the program windows get crowded.

QUOTE

QUOTE
Turns out I can borrow a half decent screen a while if I want. I may go for that option to buy some time.

If it's better than your current one you'll get spoiled, then you'll need a new one that's at least as good or feel disappointed. tongue.gif


Not a chance. It's the same size with lower resolution. Probably a crap screen that was bundled with the computer.
https://www.amazon.com/HP-L2208w-22-inch-Widescreen-Monitor/dp/B001622L12

I like the pivot options and other stand adjustments the Philips is capable of. I've missed that on every screen I've had. It also have some fancy feature that lets you connect several devices and display them side by side on the screen. Sound kind of cool to have your phone display up in a corner... tongue.gif
MultiView they call it.
http://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/BDM3270QP2_00/brilliance-led-backlit-lcd-display-with-multiview

Posted by: Christian J Dec 29 2016, 02:55 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 29 2016, 03:37 PM) *

Yes, but there's an additional problem. I like sitting far from the screen and I have room for it. But the fact that I need glasses nowadays force me to sit at a distance at which the glasses give a sharp image... sad.gif

You mean you must sit closer because of the glasses? unsure.gif

QUOTE
In all directions. My current screen is much larger and have much higher res. than my previous one, so I thought I would be able to have both two and three windows open side by side, but as you know it doesn't work that way. OK, I can have two windows, but then the program windows get crowded.

Sounds like a wide screen might work then, which is fortunate because that's the most common shape nowadays.

QUOTE
It also have some fancy feature that lets you connect several devices and display them side by side on the screen. Sound kind of cool to have your phone display up in a corner... tongue.gif

I just wish you could access your local PC server with the phone's browsers...

Posted by: pandy Dec 29 2016, 04:37 PM

[quote name='Christian J' date='Dec 29 2016, 08:55 PM' post='133459']
You mean you must sit closer because of the glasses? unsure.gif
[/quote]
Yeah. You don't use glasses? Glasses for fairly close view is sharp only at a certain distance and they never get it right at to optician. Also as your sight deteriorates that distance changes. With the set I have now the reading glasses had too close optimal distance to start with so I had no put my nose in the book. Now I have to hold it away a bit. I don't use progressive glasses. Maybe those work better

[quote]Sounds like a wide screen might work then, which is fortunate because that's the most common shape nowadays.[/quote]

Have a wide screen already. And don't really like the format. Two more square screens would probably be best. But I'm going to Elgiganten to see what they have one of these days and ask about the Philips screen.

[quote]It also have some fancy feature that lets you connect several devices and display them side by side on the screen. Sound kind of cool to have your phone display up in a corner... tongue.gif[/quote]
I just wish you could access your local PC server with the phone's browsers...
[/quote]

Surely you an open the server up to the world a short while?

Well, off for a late walk in my new military fur cap from the 50's. That will keep the bad guys away! ninja.gif

Posted by: Christian J Dec 29 2016, 08:16 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 29 2016, 10:37 PM) *

I don't use progressive glasses. Maybe those work better

Maybe you should get the above sorted first. Otherwise your choice of monitor size might be based on distance requirements that will change over time anyway. unsure.gif

QUOTE
Surely you an open the server up to the world a short while?

Wouldn't that be almost as much work as FTP-ing to the web server?

Posted by: pandy Dec 29 2016, 10:35 PM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Dec 30 2016, 02:16 AM) *

QUOTE(pandy @ Dec 29 2016, 10:37 PM) *

I don't use progressive glasses. Maybe those work better

Maybe you should get the above sorted first. Otherwise your choice of monitor size might be based on distance requirements that will change over time anyway. unsure.gif


Obviously you don't need glasses - yet. tongue.gif It's an ongoing process. Your sight continues to deteriorate little by little and to accommodate that you change the distance to the book or screen more or less without realizing you do until one day it dawns on you you need new glasses, you get them and then it starts all over again. Basically it sucks.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Surely you an open the server up to the world a short while?

Wouldn't that be almost as much work as FTP-ing to the web server?


Sure. But I thought you wanted to test on your own server.

Anyway, I've told my friend I want to borrow the screen. I'll get it this weekend.

Posted by: pandy Mar 23 2017, 01:09 PM

FYI I just ordered the huge Philips screen which has about the same pixel density as my current one.

I went to the store to get some info and they recommended this screen over others so... But they didn't have it in stock, so I had to order online. I learned that while AMVA has a little more narrow acceptable viewing angle it has larger color depth than IPS and I thought that sounded good.

Thanks for your help, Christian. happy.gif

Posted by: Christian J Mar 23 2017, 04:26 PM

You're welcome! Have you kept using the broken screen for three months? blink.gif (Not that I'm any better, my distrust in Windows 10 keeps me from ordering the new computer I need. wacko.gif )




Posted by: pandy Mar 23 2017, 06:58 PM

I have. cool.gif

It was kinda accidental. It took time to get the screen I should borrow delivered (they have a car, I don't). Then I thought the holidays are over soon, no idea to bother with a borrowed screen so I canceled the whole thing. By then the screen wasn't so bad anymore. It doesn't flicker. It's just that images are very, well, grainy and smudged. It seems primary colors are alright, others not. I can stand watching the news, but not a movie. So as it happened time passed... tongue.gif

Posted by: pandy Mar 29 2017, 07:29 PM

It has arrived. I'll fetch it tomorrow.

QUOTE(Christian J @ Dec 27 2016, 02:34 AM) *

QUOTE
Of course, you realize that if I buy a new screen and the display still is garbled, it's all on your head, right? laugh.gif

Let's say I always give a full money-back guarantee on my consultations. cool.gif


I'll hold you to that if the screen wasn't the problem after all. ninja.gif tongue.gif

Posted by: pandy Mar 30 2017, 02:46 PM

You're off the hook. It was the screen.

*beep* it's big! I'll get "nackspärr" (wryneck?). tongue.gif And bright. I jumped when I opened my text editor and the whole screen turned white. I guess it was time to send the old one to screen heaven.

Since the pixel dentity is about the same, this screen cap should show how much extra space there is. I made the browser window 1920 x 1080.

Attached Image

Posted by: Christian J Mar 30 2017, 06:06 PM

You could get a (almost) new GPU too, sometimes you get the investment back within a year or so from savings on the electricity bill (ditto for PSUs).

In hindsight I should have bought a 31" screen too, and placed it farther away on the desk (thus freeing up more desk space) but I was too stingy as usual. sad.gif

Posted by: pandy Mar 30 2017, 07:04 PM

Nuh, computer is only about 2 years old.

GPU? I'm not sure what GPU is. Wikipedia says it's not the same as graphics card and then they start listing what I've always thought were graphics cards, like Nvidia GeForce. Maybe GPU is called graphics card in everyday language?

I'm getting used to the big desktop, but there are issues, things I need to relearn. I seldom used maximized windows before, but now it's impossible. And I need to place the window a good bit down from the top of the screen because the screen is so high I probably really would get wry neck/nackspärr if reading at the top of the screen. Or I could get a dedicated LOW computer table... A taller person wouldn't have the same problem, of course. I'm not very tall and I like to sit on a fairly low chair so that's something I should have thought about.

There are some other large screens that have other proportions. They are very wide but not so high. I thought they looked horrible, but now I'm thinking that might be the best way to go, almost like having two normal screens side by side.

Posted by: Christian J Mar 30 2017, 08:28 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Mar 31 2017, 02:04 AM) *

GPU? I'm not sure what GPU is. Wikipedia says it's not the same as graphics card and then they start listing what I've always thought were graphics cards, like Nvidia GeForce. Maybe GPU is called graphics card in everyday language?

To be exact it's part of the graphics card: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_card#Graphics_Processing_Unit

QUOTE
I'm getting used to the big desktop, but there are issues, things I need to relearn. I seldom used maximized windows before, but now it's impossible.

Same thing here, it's increadibly annoying when you open multiple program windows and Windows positions each new one at random around the screen and not where you want them.

QUOTE
Or I could get a dedicated LOW computer table...

Or a higher chair together with a foot rest?


Posted by: pandy Mar 30 2017, 09:17 PM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Mar 31 2017, 03:28 AM) *

To be exact it's part of the graphics card: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_card#Graphics_Processing_Unit


Yeah, that's the article I referred to. Are you sure it can be exchanged separately? Never heard of changing parts of the graphics card.

QUOTE
QUOTE
I'm getting used to the big desktop, but there are issues, things I need to relearn. I seldom used maximized windows before, but now it's impossible.

Same thing here, it's increadibly annoying when you open multiple program windows and Windows positions each new one at random around the screen and not where you want them.


No, I meant the other way around. I don't like maximized windows but I sometime maximize for a short time. But on this screen maximized is way to much. If one just drags the window larger one needs to drag to get it smaller again too. Can't just click the title bar to toggle between your preferred size and the temporarily larger window.

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Or I could get a dedicated LOW computer table...

Or a higher chair together with a foot rest?


Not comfortable. I like to sort of move around in the chair. I'll just learn to keep my windows low.

Posted by: Christian J Mar 31 2017, 08:15 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Mar 31 2017, 04:17 AM) *

Are you sure it can be exchanged separately? Never heard of changing parts of the graphics card.

No I meant the whole card, but writing "GPU" was shorter. sleep.gif

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No, I meant the other way around. I don't like maximized windows but I sometime maximize for a short time. But on this screen maximized is way to much. If one just drags the window larger one needs to drag to get it smaller again too. Can't just click the title bar to toggle between your preferred size and the temporarily larger window.

Yes, maximized have become useless: https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-large-display-paradox/ (the page mentions a customization program called WinSplit, which redirects to the non-free MaxTo).

BTW here's a test of Win10 on ultrawide screen: http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-ultrawide-monitor-experience (Linux(?) desktops like Cinnamon also let you fit program windows maximized to one quadrant of the screen, or one side half).

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Not comfortable. I like to sort of move around in the chair. I'll just learn to keep my windows low.

For maximum eye comfort I recall you're supposed to be eye level with the screen's top edge. Get a lower table. smile.gif

Posted by: pandy Mar 31 2017, 02:29 PM

QUOTE(Christian J @ Mar 31 2017, 03:15 PM) *

No I meant the whole card, but writing "GPU" was shorter. sleep.gif


rolleyes.gif

Yeah, I also found some programs that let you resize windows to specified sizes, but they all seemed too bothersome, too many steps.

Cnet claims they have the freeware version.
http://download.cnet.com/WinSplit-Revolution/3000-2072_4-10971915.html

As it happens I already had it on my computer but it looks like I never got around to installing it. I'll do that now.

Posted by: pandy Mar 31 2017, 02:39 PM

My version is 11.04 and it clearly states it freeware.

It seems useable. First I didn't think so because it snaps the windows to the corners, but there seems to be a feature to make it remember the position. I haven't figured out how to make the window open at the saved position though...

https://web.archive.org/web/20131210100606/http://winsplit-revolution.com/help

Posted by: pandy Apr 3 2017, 07:12 AM

I've found uses for a maximized window. I have some large tables (spreadsheets) and it's actually great to be able to get an overview without scrolling. And when looking at long lines of code in small textareas at forums. Of course in the last case it's mainly the width one needs but familiar proportions makes it easier to read.

Posted by: pandy Apr 4 2017, 08:08 AM

QUOTE

For maximum eye comfort I recall you're supposed to be eye level with the screen's top edge. Get a lower table. smile.gif


Yeah, I recently heard placing the screen low, I think even lower than that, also helps with dry eyes since the eye lids will cover more of the eye ball then.

Things like that may be easy peasy in an office. Not so easy at home. Especially not with a large screen. You'd need a huge table.

Posted by: Christian J Apr 4 2017, 02:25 PM

QUOTE(pandy @ Apr 4 2017, 03:08 PM) *

also helps with dry eyes since the eye lids will cover more of the eye ball then.

Yes that's the point with it, AFAIK. But if the table is too high, maybe you could tilt the screen down towards you instead? Should give the same result as lowering it, except that you must raise your head, but if you lean back in the chair maybe that's not an issue. Not that I understand how you can type with any of these acrobatics. tongue.gif

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Things like that may be easy peasy in an office. Not so easy at home. Especially not with a large screen. You'd need a huge table.

Why is that? AFAIK the only need for a big table is to increase the distance to the screen, but screen height shouldn't be affected by table size, or?


Posted by: Darin McGrew Apr 4 2017, 11:23 PM

At work, the default setup is a docking station with two 24-inch displays. (Some have other setups, but that's the default if you don't request something special.)

Anyway, I find that it works very nicely to have one oriented portrait mode (where I read most text content) and one oriented landscape mode (where I use MS Outlook and other apps that assume a maximized window in landscape orientation).

Posted by: pandy Apr 5 2017, 07:18 AM

Yeah, two screens seems like an ideal setup in many ways, we we're talking about that earlier.

QUOTE(Christian J @ Apr 4 2017, 09:25 PM) *

Why is that? AFAIK the only need for a big table is to increase the distance to the screen, but screen height shouldn't be affected by table size, or?


But we have large screens and need the distance. Isn't the problems with big screens what we are talking about?

Of course, in theory one could use two smaller tables. One for the keyboard and hand writing and a lower one behind that for the screen. If the "writing table" is narrow enough you would still see the screen behind it even if it was lower. You could even use a stand for the screen. One of those TV stands maybe. But for me that would mean ditching another table and I don't want that. Don't have room for an additional setup.

A stand would probably be a good idea anyway, for watching movies or TV comfortably. But I've looked for that before and only found ridiculously expensive ones. Wouldn't need anything fancy, just a stand.

Posted by: Christian J Apr 5 2017, 10:08 AM

QUOTE(pandy @ Apr 5 2017, 02:18 PM) *

But we have large screens and need the distance. Isn't the problems with big screens what we are talking about?

Maybe, if it's tall. But on a widescreen most of the size is just extra width, not sure what's the best distance then.

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Of course, in theory one could use two smaller tables. One for the keyboard and hand writing and a lower one behind that for the screen. If the "writing table" is narrow enough you would still see the screen behind it even if it was lower.

I've seen office desks built like that, with two adjustable sections.

How about using a wall mount?


Posted by: pandy Apr 5 2017, 02:42 PM

The top of my new screen is 1 cm higher than the old one. That's quite a lot.

Yeah, if one had special computer room, an office, one could get something like that. But that's not for me. Wall mount seems very inflexible. I don't want to stare into the wall. I've almost always placed my desks so I can look out over the room and towards a window.

Posted by: Christian J Apr 5 2017, 07:51 PM

Here's one that attaches to a table: https://www.komplett.se/product/836092/datorutrustning/kringutrustning/bildskarm/bord-och-vaggfaste/iiglo-bordfaste-mm100#

There are also versions that can hold multiple screens.

Posted by: pandy Apr 6 2017, 06:39 AM

Looks quite handy. But it doesn't look like the screen can be placed behind the desk and lower than the desk. But instead of the ordinary rigid stand it must be great. If one can put screws in ones desk...

BTW the stand on my new screen was worth it alone. I just need to touch it and it slides slowly up or down. Very cool. When this screen breaks I'll keep the stand.

Posted by: Christian J Apr 6 2017, 07:29 AM

According to the schematic, the actual holder (attached to the center of the screen) can be placed level with the desk, that makes almost half of the screen stay below the desktop. Also it seems to be secured with an ordinary vise, no screws needed.

Posted by: pandy Apr 6 2017, 07:34 PM

Ah, in that case it could be something.

Posted by: pandy Apr 14 2017, 10:20 PM

Actually, one of the programs I rejected turned out to be what I wanted.

http://www.brianapps.net/sizer/

You put the pointer over a corner or edge of a window and right-click. A menu pops up and you can choose the size you want from a list. You can define your own dimensions. Not as easy as ALT + SPACE X, but not so much trouble either. It also shows you the size of the window when you drag to change its size. Quite handy for HTML purposes. If the program would remember the original size and offer a way to go back to that it would be close to perfect.

Posted by: pandy Mar 29 2018, 05:06 PM

I've discovered a feature. cool.gif

We talked earlier about a problem with large screens, that we miss easily switching a window's size between preferred and full size, since full is almost always too large on a large screen.

If you have a smaller window and put the pointer over its top edge so it turns into a two-headed arrow, as if you was about to drag the window smaller or larger, and instead of dragging double click, the window will expand to full height but keep its original width. The same can be done at the bottom edge. Do it again and the window returns to its original size.

If this feature was there there before Win10 I have totally missed it.

This is good. I would still prefer to be able to toggle between two configurable sizes, but this will do.

Posted by: Darin McGrew Mar 29 2018, 10:01 PM

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If this feature was there there before Win10 I have totally missed it.
At work, our laptops run Windows 7 Enterprise, and they have this feature. I use it all the time with shell windows.

It's one of the features I wish Mac OS had.

Posted by: pandy Mar 30 2018, 07:26 AM

Hmm. Could I have missed it before? Of course, I skipped 7, so maybe that was the first OS that had it.

I use the Resizer thingie I wrote about earlier. It lets me rightclick and choose from a list of window sizes (defined by me). Combined with this things are almost as good as before with a smaller screen.

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