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> How bad is Win 10?
pandy
post Oct 4 2017, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 5 2017, 01:08 AM) *

Probably you already know this, but I think the Programs folder is for 64 bit programs and the x86 one is for 32 bit.

Yes.

QUOTE
You can also right-click shortcuts for older programs and make them run in compatibility mode.


That didn't help, you see. But moving the program to x86 did. So there must be a difference.

QUOTE

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I also have problems with file associations not sticking. That seems to be common. The advice is to use Settings... Default Apps and to use the Set defaults by apps option. Problem with that, apart from sounding tedious, is that hardly any of the programs I've installed so far shows up there. Basically only FF and Adobe's programs do

Below the list there should be settings based on file type, protocol and app (how I hate that word, "app" dry.gif ).


I know. But there are lots of pages about this problem, since it seems very common. The consensus is that the way I described works when other ways don't. But if the "app" isn't even listed? And why aren't they listed? Some simple programs I confess that I just dragged over, but the properly installed ones aren't there either.

Another annoyance. Setting programs to run at startup doesn't always work either. Maybe because of that UAC thing?

This will drive me nuts! Anyway, two program associations now works. Several days after I did something about it, so I don't know what did the trick. Maybe information about any changes to the system needs to be sent to MS for approval before they are okeyed. ninja.gif

This is going slowly. It feels like accomplishing one thing a day is more than enough.

About apps, long ago I occasionally used that word as short for application. But nowadays one comes to think of mobile apps. And "they" makes a distinction between apps and programs. So how are apps different?
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Christian J
post Oct 5 2017, 04:49 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 5 2017, 03:05 AM) *

That didn't help, you see. But moving the program to x86 did. So there must be a difference.

I meant if the program didn't work in the x86 folder either.

QUOTE
The consensus is that the way I described works when other ways don't.

I didn't have too much problems with associations. Maybe a couple got lost in the beginning, not sure. Perhaps Windows updates screw things up, or maybe Windows intentionally resets them in a desperate last attempt to make you try the Edge browser? laugh.gif

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But if the "app" isn't even listed?

Can't you use file type then? But if a program uses its own file extensions maybe you need to create such a file before the file type is recognized (just guessing). unsure.gif

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Maybe information about any changes to the system needs to be sent to MS for approval before they are okeyed. ninja.gif

That wouldn't surprise me at all. You did disable all the Cloud features right? Windows Defender has a couple. Also beware of any third party antivirus programs you may use, maybe they work differently in Win10.

QUOTE
About apps, long ago I occasionally used that word as short for application. But nowadays one comes to think of mobile apps. And "they" makes a distinction between apps and programs. So how are apps different?

A "program" is something suspicious and complicated that you can find free on the wild web. An "app" is something safe and cool that you can buy in the app store. Seems Google and Apple started pushing the term for mobile, then it spilled over to Windows desktop as well together along with the mobile UI. Maybe Linux desktop used it earlier too, can't remember its terminology.
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pandy
post Oct 5 2017, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 5 2017, 11:49 AM) *

Can't you use file type then?

Point was that didn't work and when it doesn't the method where my programs don't show up is supposed to.

Of course, what I really want is that the choices made from within the program in question would stick. Every other way to do it seems cumbersome. Say, for IrfanView I want maybe 15 associations. What an ordeal do have to do them one by one. But at least some associations has started to work now. So maybe the problem will go away.


QUOTE
A "program" is something suspicious and complicated that you can find free on the wild web. An "app" is something safe and cool that you can buy in the app store. Seems Google and Apple started pushing the term for mobile, then it spilled over to Windows desktop as well together along with the mobile UI. Maybe Linux desktop used it earlier too, can't remember its terminology.


I'm beginning to think there's more to it. That the apps work in a different way somehow. I haven't had the strength to dig into things that isn't essencial to get this monster running yet.

I've tried to lower the UAC settings. Turning it off totally actually works. The other setting are all the same. Dimming the desktop? I don't ever see any dimming. IPB Image

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pandy
post Oct 5 2017, 09:45 AM
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There are totatally idiotic answers at Windows Support about the UAC problem. Threads end with the problem still existing or they are solved by another user, not support. But I've already tried all of the suggested fixes.

There was one suggestion from a support person that I'll try tonight though. To create a new account with admin rights. Maybe it's my account that's somehow screwed up. Have to read up first though so I don't lock myself out. wink.gif
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pandy
post Oct 5 2017, 09:47 AM
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Another thing. I remember you can't see the image in my sig. It's the same for me now. Windows firewall? I run the built in security suite for now.
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Christian J
post Oct 5 2017, 10:15 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 5 2017, 04:42 PM) *

I'm beginning to think there's more to it. That the apps work in a different way somehow. I haven't had the strength to dig into things that isn't essencial to get this monster running yet.

You mean Windows 10 apps in particular? Yes, if nothing else they might be part of the on-going migration from the old Control Panel to the new "Windows Settings". Some of the apps can't be uninstalled either.

QUOTE
Dimming the desktop? I don't ever see any dimming. IPB Image

The Night Light? I think it only changes color temperature.

Parts of the OS is definately buggy, though. For example, I found a checkbox that once ticked it can't be unticked. wacko.gif

QUOTE
Another thing. I remember you can't see the image in my sig. It's the same for me now. Windows firewall? I run the built in security suite for now.

No it appeared once I got my new computer, no idea why. Today it suddenly stopped working again, but this time it seems to be the server.
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pandy
post Oct 5 2017, 07:49 PM
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Oh, OK. Then we both will see it soon maybe. tongue.gif

No, the dimming referred to what they talk about in the UAC CP. Sheesh, the thing looks like a webpage but text can't be copied. If you set it to the second level from the bottom it says blah blah (Do not dim my desktop) blah blah.

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Christian J
post Oct 5 2017, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE
QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 6 2017, 02:49 AM) *

Oh, OK. Then we both will see it soon maybe. tongue.gif

Seems the whole site is down. I don't even remember what ACTA(?) is about, there have been so many new ones. mellow.gif


ACTA is over but I like the image. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
QUOTE
No, the dimming referred to what they talk about in the UAC CP. Sheesh, the thing looks like a webpage but text can't be copied. If you set it to the second level from the bottom it says blah blah (Do not dim my desktop) blah blah.

Oh that. When the UAC prompt is fired, the whole desktop background darkens.


I understand something like that is supposed to happen. But it doesn't. Not that I care.

blush.gif Well, I'm sort of typing with very small letters now. As I think I said, I installed things outside Program Files. I've even heard that is recommended, even for Win 10. But since I discovered some old programs didn't work outside x86 I thought maybe new programs dont work properly outide their proper location either. Classic Shell was one of the first I installed and since it messes with the shell... I uninstalled it and reinstalled it properly. Things brightened up a little.

File associations seem to work now, even if not instantly. Alas UAC is the same as before.

One step in the right direction anyway. One problem with association is that Photos has grabbed some image extensions and won't let go (I've only done images and various text files so far). In Control Panel\Programs\Default Programs\Set Default Programs\Set Program Associations the extensions it has grabbed can't be unticked. Sigh.
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pandy
post Oct 8 2017, 12:48 PM
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Sorry, I think I wrote in your post. Lucky I quoted you. blush.gif

File assocations half work. For image files it turned out Photos didn't want to let go of some types. After uninstalling Photos I can associate PNG and JPG with Irfan, but only from the Windows CP, not with Irfan settings. Sigh.

Help files can't be opened in the x86 folder. I have to pull them out. So they can't be opened from the program's menu. Is this normal?
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Christian J
post Oct 8 2017, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 8 2017, 07:48 PM) *

Sorry, I think I wrote in your post. Lycky I quoted you. blush.gif

Win10 is taking its toll. wacko.gif

QUOTE
I understand something like that is supposed to happen. But it doesn't. Not that I care.

It's an opacity effect, first seen in Vista AFAIK. Maybe the Classic Shell prevents such things.

QUOTE
For image files it turned out Photos didn't want to let go of some types. After uninstalling Photos I can associate PNG and JPG with Irfan, but only from the Windows CP, not with Irfan settings. Sigh.

I can change it in the file type list without uninstalling Photos. BTW I also noticed that you can change default programs both in Control Panel and Windows Settings --wonder if both work the same, or if one is better?

QUOTE
Help files can't be opened in the x86 folder. I have to pull them out. So they can't be opened from the program's menu. Is this normal?

No they work for me, at least with Irfanview.
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pandy
post Oct 8 2017, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 8 2017, 09:21 PM) *

QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 8 2017, 07:48 PM) *

Sorry, I think I wrote in your post. Lycky I quoted you. blush.gif

Win10 is taking its toll. wacko.gif


It surely is. Soon I'm tired of computers altogether. I don't think I've ever used this much time to get things working. Earlier it has been a matter of finding files and installing programs and setting things up as I want. Tiresome but kind of a work of love at the sime time. This - I don't get anywhere. Just google the same things, read the same tips and am afraid to install too much in case I have to start over. It's just boring.

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QUOTE
I understand something like that is supposed to happen. But it doesn't. Not that I care.

It's an opacity effect, first seen in Vista AFAIK. Maybe the Classic Shell prevents such things.


Nuh. Uninstalling it didn't change a thing.

QUOTE
QUOTE
For image files it turned out Photos didn't want to let go of some types. After uninstalling Photos I can associate PNG and JPG with Irfan, but only from the Windows CP, not with Irfan settings. Sigh.

I can change it in the file type list without uninstalling Photos. BTW I also noticed that you can change default programs both in Control Panel and Windows Settings --wonder if both work the same, or if one is better?


I could too (I think) but things didn't stick. Associate file types with my text editor didn't stick earlier either but after nn numbers of reboots it did. Go figure.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Help files can't be opened in the x86 folder. I have to pull them out. So they can't be opened from the program's menu. Is this normal?

No they work for me, at least with Irfanview.


Checking... Irfan works for me too, but I have the 64 bit version.

Another funny thing. They say turning UAC off stop "native apps" from working, including the start menu. Huh, no. The start menu is still there. Oh well, one bug to be grateful for I suppose. IPB Image
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Christian J
post Oct 9 2017, 06:07 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 9 2017, 02:21 AM) *

I don't think I've ever used this much time to get things working. Earlier it has been a matter of finding files and installing programs and setting things up as I want. Tiresome but kind of a work of love at the sime time. This - I don't get anywhere. Just google the same things, read the same tips and am afraid to install too much in case I have to start over. It's just boring.

For me it was relatively painless, but maybe I haven't customized as much as you.

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Nuh. Uninstalling it didn't change a thing.

It could be a driver issue as well. After I bought my new monitor, my old Vista PC sometimes started with the screen slightly darkened. Sometimes half the screen was dark. Similar things happened with the Win10 PC until remembered to install the monitor driver.

Also check that opacity is enabled in Settings > Personalization > Color. BTW there's also a setting to "Show accent color on the following surfaces" --maybe that affects those white program toolbars you got?

QUOTE
I could too (I think) but things didn't stick. Associate file types with my text editor didn't stick earlier either but after nn numbers of reboots it did. Go figure.

I suspect Windows updates reset some preferences. Perhaps one needs to recheck the privacy settings after every update as well.

QUOTE
Checking... Irfan works for me too, but I have the 64 bit version.

See if running the x86 programs in compatibility mode works.

QUOTE
Another funny thing. They say turning UAC off stop "native apps" from working, including the start menu.

Sounds strange. Who says that, MS?
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pandy
post Oct 9 2017, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE

QUOTE

I don't think I've ever used this much time to get things working. Earlier it has been a matter of finding files and installing programs and setting things up as I want. Tiresome but kind of a work of love at the sime time. This - I don't get anywhere. Just google the same things, read the same tips and am afraid to install too much in case I have to start over. It's just boring.

For me it was relatively painless, but maybe I haven't customized as much as you.


I've just fiddled with colors. It's the other things that is the main problem. Associations, drag and drop, that Run as Administrator doesn't work so I have to turn UAC off...

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QUOTE

Nuh. Uninstalling it didn't change a thing.

It could be a driver issue as well. After I bought my new monitor, my old Vista PC sometimes started with the screen slightly darkened. Sometimes half the screen was dark. Similar things happened with the Win10 PC until remembered to install the monitor driver.


But shouldn't screen drivers come with Windows updates? And could they affect the things I have problems with? I don't know what other drivers it could be.

QUOTE

Also check that opacity is enabled in Settings > Personalization > Color. BTW there's also a setting to "Show accent color on the following surfaces" --maybe that affects those white program toolbars you got?


I saw those options before but didn't understand what they do. I'll have a new look.

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QUOTE

I could too (I think) but things didn't stick. Associate file types with my text editor didn't stick earlier either but after nn numbers of reboots it did. Go figure.

I suspect Windows updates reset some preferences. Perhaps one needs to recheck the privacy settings after every update as well.


Well, text files (I mean that in a wide sense) have disassociated themselves again. Some still have the Notetab icon and nothing happens when clicking them. Some, for example .txt, are back to Notepad.

QUOTE

Checking... Irfan works for me too, but I have the 64 bit version.
See if running the x86 programs in compatibility mode works.


Should that be need it when they are in the x86 folder? But I think I've ticked that box too, for the troublesome ones anyway.

QUOTE

QUOTE

Another funny thing. They say turning UAC off stop "native apps" from working, including the start menu.

Sounds strange. Who says that, MS?


Yes. MS and everyone else. That's one of the most common questions. People have the same problem as I do and when they turn UAC of they lose the start menu. But maybe that's something MS has fixed later.
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Christian J
post Oct 10 2017, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 10 2017, 12:38 AM) *

But shouldn't screen drivers come with Windows updates?

No idea. The first two weeks my new PC would sometimes display a band of artifacts on the screen before Win10 started, then the PC rebooted automatically. At first I suspected some hardware glitch. It ended once I installed the monitor's own driver, but a Win update was also installed at the same time, so I'm not sure what fixed it.

This also reminds me that Win10 didn't allow my Samsung scanner driver for "security reasons".

QUOTE
Well, text files (I mean that in a wide sense) have disassociated themselves again.

You mean it didn't happen because of an update? What else could have caused it? A reboot? A "housekeeping" process?

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Some still have the Notetab icon and nothing happens when clicking them.

Not even a prompt to choose program? I always got that.

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Should that be need it when they are in the x86 folder? But I think I've ticked that box too, for the troublesome ones anyway.

I got one program working by clicking the button "Run compatibility troubleshooter" (which downloaded an older version of .NET Framework), but in that case the help files were not the problem.

BTW the compatibility dropdown only lets you choose from Vista and newer Win OS, don't know what that means for even older programs.

QUOTE
Yes. MS and everyone else. That's one of the most common questions. People have the same problem as I do and when they turn UAC of they lose the start menu. But maybe that's something MS has fixed later.

Aha, you enabled the Administrator account? I haven't felt the need for that yet. True, now I read that those modern apps need UAC to work, apparently there's a fix: https://winaero.com/blog/fix-apps-and-start...-in-windows-10/
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Christian J
post Oct 12 2017, 03:22 PM
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Regarding the opacity, can you see the desktop wallpaper through the Taskbar? It's almost black, but should be slightly translucent.
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pandy
post Oct 13 2017, 01:05 AM
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QUOTE
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Well, text files (I mean that in a wide sense) have disassociated themselves again.

You mean it didn't happen because of an update? What else could have caused it? A reboot? A "housekeeping" process?


I don't know. I haven't been notified about any update, but I don't know if I'm supposed to be or if they happen in the background.

QUOTE

QUOTE
Some still have the Notetab icon and nothing happens when clicking them.

Not even a prompt to choose program? I always got that.


No. Dead.

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QUOTE
Should that be needed it when they are in the x86 folder? But I think I've ticked that box too, for the troublesome ones anyway.

I got one program working by clicking the button "Run compatibility troubleshooter" (which downloaded an older version of .NET Framework), but in that case the help files were not the problem.

OK. I think I ran that once but didn't get anything out of it.

QUOTE
BTW the compatibility dropdown only lets you choose from Vista and newer Win OS, don't know what that means for even older programs.

For once my fucked up installation is better than yours! I have all of them back to Win95. biggrin.gif

QUOTE

Aha, you enabled the Administrator account? I haven't felt the need for that yet. True, now I read that those modern apps need UAC to work, apparently there's a fix: https://winaero.com/blog/fix-apps-and-start...-in-windows-10/


Yes. I even created a second Admin account in case something was wrong with the first. Didn't help. But UAC is off and I still have the start menu. Nothing is as described with this.

New for today - all extensions are hidden. Not only "known" ones. I have invented some of my own. I'm starting to feel like saying censored words. ninja.gif
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pandy
post Oct 13 2017, 01:06 AM
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QUOTE(Christian J @ Oct 12 2017, 10:22 PM) *

Regarding the opacity, can you see the desktop wallpaper through the Taskbar? It's almost black, but should be slightly translucent.


I don't know since my desktop is dark gray too. biggrin.gif
I can't see any icons through it. Should I?
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Christian J
post Oct 13 2017, 04:45 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 13 2017, 08:05 AM) *

I don't know. I haven't been notified about any update, but I don't know if I'm supposed to be or if they happen in the background.

I think I always get notifications in the Action Center, otherwise they should be listed in the Update History. The last Windows update was on 10/10, I installed it yesterday.

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No. Dead.

No response from right-clicking either? Have you looked for registry errors?

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For once my fucked up installation is better than yours! I have all of them back to Win95. biggrin.gif

It seems to depend on how old the program is, now I found one with Win95 too.

QUOTE

Yes. I even created a second Admin account in case something was wrong with the first. Didn't help. But UAC is off and I still have the start menu. Nothing is as described with this.

New for today - all extensions are hidden. Not only "known" ones. I have invented some of my own. I'm starting to feel like saying censored words. ninja.gif

Something does seem broken. You might check the registry, SSD, RAM etc for errors. BTW you did hear about CCleaner being compromised a few days ago?

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Christian J
post Oct 13 2017, 04:46 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Oct 13 2017, 08:06 AM) *

I can't see any icons through it. Should I?

Yes, icons and open programs.
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pandy
post Oct 13 2017, 05:28 AM
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I don't. I may have set it to not be transparent, I don't remember. If there is such a setting, I probably used it.
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