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> How bad is Win 10?
pandy
post Sep 27 2017, 09:13 AM
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Christian, do you have Pro or some other more advanced version of 10? I have Home. I find no way to make an ethernet connection metered. sad.gif

And what's with these "apps"? Just a hip word for applications/programs or more like apps on a phone?
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Christian J
post Sep 27 2017, 09:33 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 27 2017, 01:43 PM) *

Well, the computer is fast. smile.gif But the look and feel of Windows 10... My eyes hurt already - not joking. All this verbose text everywhere, the colors, no proper borders,

Not sure if this one's any better: https://www.howtogeek.com/133405/how-to-get...k-on-windows-8/ (I've become used to the flat theme myself though).

But first of all clean up all the bloat and spyware which comes enabled by default, I used https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/ (though it has not been updated for a while). A couple other sites I've used for manual checking:

https://www.ghacks.net/2017/03/20/turn-off-...a-double-click/
https://www.cyberpunkforums.com/viewtopic.php?id=3692

You can also re-enable Photo Viewer in the registry: https://www.howtogeek.com/225844/how-to-mak...-on-windows-10/

QUOTE
program windows float into eachother *visually*...

When does that happen? I think I've experienced something like that during Taskbar operations.

QUOTE
I don\t even manage to choose the color I want on the desktop.

That should work once you've entered the license key.

QUOTE
Isn\t this supposed to be fun.

The real fun is that this new mobile/touch screen design was done because Microsoft wanted the same Windows look on both PCs and smartphones. Then nobody wanted to buy their smartphones anyway. Oops. mellow.gif

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Christian J
post Sep 27 2017, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 27 2017, 04:13 PM) *

Christian, do you have Pro or some other more advanced version of 10? I have Home. I find no way to make an ethernet connection metered. sad.gif

I have Home too. Go to Windows Settings (the cog wheel icon) > Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.

While you're at it, go to Win Update > Advanced > Choose how updates are delivered, and disable everything. There are many more similar annoyances, see the links I posted above.

QUOTE
And what's with these "apps"? Just a hip word for applications/programs or more like apps on a phone?

Both, I think. The plan is likely to make users buy programs from the Windows Store (similar to Apple's and Google's walled gardens) instead of downloading free software. Most likely they try to make it more complicated and scary to download free software, and that way herd users into the Windows Store, so expect even more "security warnings" etc in the future. wacko.gif

There's also a version called Windows 10 S, where you are only allowed to install programs from the Windows Store.

This post has been edited by Christian J: Sep 27 2017, 10:04 AM
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pandy
post Sep 27 2017, 06:55 PM
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Thanks. I'll look into the links tomorrow. My head spins right now.

QUOTE(Christian J @ Sep 27 2017, 04:46 PM) *

I have Home too. Go to Windows Settings (the cog wheel icon) > Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.


But how? sad.gif

Attached Image

QUOTE
While you're at it, go to Win Update > Advanced > Choose how updates are delivered, and disable everything. There are many more similar annoyances, see the links I posted above.


Ouch, that's a nasty one.

QUOTE
There's also a version called Windows 10 S, where you are only allowed to install programs from the Windows Store.


For real? And people buy that? Maybe it's meant as some kind of semi kiosk mode? If you want to give a severly demented person a computer or use it as a learning machine at kindergarten maybe this offers some kind of security and still lets them play with installing stuff. ohmy.gif

About the floating windows, I meant in my mind. Big white areas without borders, with too much text and flashy icons and everything spread out instead of ordered in nice, compact columns and sections, I can't easily separate what belongs where. It does actually hurt my eyes. They get tired. Probably I stare to try to see something that isn't there.

I don't know. I've always defended MS back in the "evil empire days". I never thought they were quite as bad as people painted them. But now I don't know. Problem is, there's nowhere to go. Linux doesn't really do it for me. I can't use my favourite programs. Yeah, I know, Wine or whatever is used these days, but it isn't the same. And many Linux programs that could be good are in eternal beta stage.

So, at the end of the day, who will own our asses the most? MS or Google? ninja.gif
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pandy
post Sep 27 2017, 07:14 PM
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BTW, several years ago now I said programs had started to look like web pages. Security related applications led the way, AV and Firewalls. Big icons, all backgrounds white or in some horrible strong color, i.e. no chrome. No menus, huge buttons instead. Now the whole freeking OS looks like that.

Speaking of icons, what happened to small, easily recognized icons in primal colors, I wonder? I don't want to study them in detail for minutes to discover what they may symbolize. Icons should be like traffic signs. High contrast, clear and stong colors and very, very easy to identify and understand.
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Christian J
post Sep 28 2017, 05:59 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 01:55 AM) *

But how? sad.gif

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That looks like the old Control Panel, that they're gradually phasing out. Now there's a second one called "Windows Settings". Go to Start and click the cog wheel icon in the bottom left, then Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.

QUOTE
For real? And people buy that?

No idea, but some seem to buy Chromebooks too. Apparently Win 10 S came with some Surface Laptops, but buyers where given the option to upgrade to full Windows.

QUOTE
Maybe it's meant as some kind of semi kiosk mode? If you want to give a severly demented person a computer or use it as a learning machine at kindergarten maybe this offers some kind of security and still lets them play with installing stuff. ohmy.gif

Yes, and maybe people demented by used to smartphones and tablet use will like it. wacko.gif

QUOTE
I don't know. I've always defended MS back in the "evil empire days". I never thought they were quite as bad as people painted them. But now I don't know.

The dirty tricks they've used to trick Win7 users to upgrade to 10 were a give-away for me. As for the spyware, the app store and the new UI, I think they just try to imitate Google and Apple in a clumsy way (kind of typical for MS).

QUOTE
So, at the end of the day, who will own our asses the most? MS or Google? ninja.gif

So far it's possible to fight Google by being careful, and you don't need any of the MS cloud services. But if MS starts spying on your file system and keyboard input it sure becomes hard to defend yourself. OTOH I can't imagine Win 10 Enterprise clients accepting that MS spies on their company secrets, and even if MS would just spy on pesky Win Home users I think the loss of trust might affect their Enterprise sales as well.
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pandy
post Sep 28 2017, 06:37 AM
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QUOTE
That looks like the old Control Panel, that they're gradually phasing out. Now there's a second one called "Windows Settings". Go to Start and click the cog wheel icon in the bottom left, then Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.


It leads to exactly the same page. What am I looking for? A "link on the page", a menu option?

Windows has upgraded itself with this creator's somthing or other I've read about. Some sites say what I'm trying to do is possible after that, but alas... Most sites just say it's impossible. But I assumed they were old, since you say it is doable.
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Christian J
post Sep 28 2017, 06:56 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 02:14 AM) *

BTW, several years ago now I said programs had started to look like web pages.

Lately I've started seeing web pages with "hamburger" icons in their menus, just like the Chrome browser. Sometimes it's several hamburger in a row. wacko.gif

QUOTE
Big icons, all backgrounds white or in some horrible strong color, i.e. no chrome. No menus, huge buttons instead. Now the whole freeking OS looks like that.

Maybe it's an adaption to small phone screens. I doubt it's for disabled users. unsure.gif

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Christian J
post Sep 28 2017, 07:05 AM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 01:37 PM) *

QUOTE
That looks like the old Control Panel, that they're gradually phasing out. Now there's a second one called "Windows Settings". Go to Start and click the cog wheel icon in the bottom left, then Network & Internet > Change Connection Properties, and enable Metered Connection.


It leads to exactly the same page. What am I looking for? A "link on the page", a menu option?

You didn't click "Change Adapter Options" further down then? Here's the right one:

Attached Image

QUOTE
Windows has upgraded itself with this creator's somthing or other I've read about. Some sites say what I'm trying to do is possible after that, but alas... Most sites just say it's impossible. But I assumed they were old, since you say it is doable.

Sounds strange, I have Creator's update too but I've also done some customizations (as mentioned before).
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pandy
post Sep 28 2017, 07:23 AM
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QUOTE(Christian J @ Sep 27 2017, 04:33 PM) *

Not sure if this one's any better: https://www.howtogeek.com/133405/how-to-get...k-on-windows-8/ (I've become used to the flat theme myself though).


Yeah, I saw that. Maybe I'll try it later. The most annoying now is the limited number of colors I can choose from. I found the Control Color setting that's hidden somewhere. There is a color mixer that lets me change 15 patches. But those colors are only used for window borders, start menu and taskbars. For the desktop I'm stuck with the presets.

See, I've got used to having my desktop in a special shade of gray. An image editor I use have the interface in different shades of gray only, even icons. That's so your perception of color won't be tinted. I found it so restful that I made windows like that too, as far as possible, different shades of gray for everything I could change.
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Christian J
post Sep 28 2017, 10:52 AM
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Did you find the Metered Connection setting? I'm getting a bit worried since I'm about to change ISP.

QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 02:23 PM) *

The most annoying now is the limited number of colors I can choose from. I found the Control Color setting that's hidden somewhere. There is a color mixer that lets me change 15 patches. But those colors are only used for window borders, start menu and taskbars. For the desktop I'm stuck with the presets.

Not sure what you mean here, I can just right-click on the desktop, chose Personalize, and change Background Picture to solid color. You can make custom colors too.

QUOTE
See, I've got used to having my desktop in a special shade of gray. An image editor I use have the interface in different shades of gray only, even icons. That's so your perception of color won't be tinted. I found it so restful that I made windows like that too, as far as possible, different shades of gray for everything I could change.

If all else fails I guess you could create a solid color background image. tongue.gif

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pandy
post Sep 28 2017, 12:37 PM
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[quote]
Did you find the Metered Connection setting? I'm getting a bit worried since I'm about to change ISP.
[/quote]

Yeah, I that's what I meant. It leads to exactly the same page as I posted a screen cap of before.


[quote]Not sure what you mean here, I can just right-click on the desktop, chose Personalize, and change Background Picture to solid color. You can make custom colors too.[/quote]

There's just 24 patches for the background and 48 for the chrome. No custom colors.

Attached Image

I found though google though that you can type "color control" in the Run box and you get to customize 15 patches for the chrome.



[quote]See, I've got used to having my desktop in a special shade of gray. An image editor I use have the interface in different shades of gray only, even icons. That's so your perception of color won't be tinted. I found it so restful that I made windows like that too, as far as possible, different shades of gray for everything I could change.[/quote]
If all else fails I guess you could create a solid color background image. tongue.gif
[/quote]

That never gets really solid. biggrin.gif
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pandy
post Sep 28 2017, 12:40 PM
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I don't know why the quotes are missed upp either. cool.gif
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Christian J
post Sep 28 2017, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 07:37 PM) *

Yeah, I that's what I meant. It leads to exactly the same page as I posted a screen cap of before.

I get to "your" page by clicking "Change adapter options" further down. unsure.gif

I can also go to my page by clicking Ethernet (in the left column in my screenshot) after next clicking the connected network shown on the right.

QUOTE
There's just 24 patches for the background and 48 for the chrome. No custom colors.

That's very odd. Have you activated the product key yet? That and the Spybot utility are the only things I can think of that makes my installation unusual. Try both those things, maybe they unlock hidden menus. Did you actually install Creator's update, or just download it? Have you rebooted afterwards? cool.gif
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pandy
post Sep 28 2017, 02:54 PM
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I have rebooted, but not done anything actively. Now they have announced a major update, so big that they let me schedule it... Maybe that's the thing?

I misunderstood you before. I did click Adapter Options. That's all I've got. I don't have the option you used.

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Christian J
post Sep 28 2017, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE(pandy @ Sep 28 2017, 09:54 PM) *

Now they have announced a major update, so big that they let me schedule it... Maybe that's the thing?

Don't think so, if you already got Creator's, I got another one too the other day.

QUOTE
I misunderstood you before. I did click Adapter Options.

Don't do that. cool.gif

QUOTE
That's all I've got. I don't have the option you used.

What happens when you click on "Ethernet" in the left column, and then click on the connected network that shows up to the right?
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pandy
post Sep 28 2017, 04:03 PM
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pandy
post Sep 28 2017, 04:58 PM
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cool.gif cool.gif cool.gif cool.gif cool.gif

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Now to my next question. I suppose there is no way to review and choose the updates I want? It's nothing or all?
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Christian J
post Sep 28 2017, 04:58 PM
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Where did you find it?

You can't choose updates, but maybe uninstall them individually afterwards.
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pandy
post Sep 28 2017, 05:01 PM
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tongue.gif



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