Previewing in MSIE, without MS Windows? Options

[Darin McGrew]

I'm considering upgrading my old WinME box to a nice, new Mac.

I'm also considering ways to preview my markup in MSIE, once I make the switch. I'm already unable to preview in MSIE 7 (it doesn't run on WinME), but it would be nice to at least check how this browser-like OS component butchers my markup. Here are some options I've considered:

• Keep the old WinME box around just to run MSIE.
• Find an ancient MSIE 5.x to run on the Mac.
• Buy WinXP (or Vista) and use Boot Camp, Parallels, VMWare, or whatever to install it on the Mac.
• Write to the specs, KISS, and hope MSIE doesn't butcher it too badly.

Are there any options I'm missing?

I really don't want to buy a copy of Windows just so I can run MSIE occasionally to preview markup changes. And keeping an old (big, clunky) WinME box around sounds like a hassle.

[Brian Chandler]

Your dilemma is the key to M$'s success, and remember that they are the most (financially) successful software company ever when you consider the options that involve giving them even more money.

[Peter1968]

Write to the specs, KISS, and hope MSIE doesn't butcher it too badly.

This option - because as Brian said, every other choice will involve you enriching Microsoft in some way. AFAIK, there is no such animal as an "IE viewer".

[pandy]

How would keeping his old Windows machine enrichen MS? I'd go for that option. And there's always BrowserPool.

[Frederiek]

The next Mac OS X Leopard, which is to come out in October, will have Bootcamp integrated.

[Peter1968]

How would keeping his old Windows machine enrichen MS? I'd go for that option. And there's always BrowserPool.

Darin wants to be able to check pages using IE 7.0 (can't do that on ME) and I doubt he wants to pay 30 euros a month for the privilege of using Browserpool. You tried their test accounts? They're extremely limited.

Short of piracy, any other way involves paying for a copy of WinXP/Vista now, doesn't it? Whether it's dual-booted/VMed into a Mac or an Unix installation is irrespective - you still need either OS.

So, every other (legal) way apart from the option I chose, involves you paying money to Microsoft.

Doesn't it?

[pandy]

Darin wants to be able to check pages using IE 7.0 (can't do that on ME) and I doubt he wants to pay 30 euros a month for the privilege of using Browserpool. You tried their test accounts? They're extremely limited.

Yes, I meant their free accounts. How do you think they are limited? I've used them a long time now, must be almost a year. Once I got kicked off and once the Mac wasn't available. That's 2 times of maybe a hundred. I don't complain.

So, every other (legal) way apart from the option I chose, involves you paying money to Microsoft.

That's fine if your objective is MS bashing. If it's to check how your pages look and work across the line of browsers, obviously it isn't an option at all. As for IE7 I get by with the help of BrowserPool and occasionally I use some friend's XP machine. I do have IE6 though so I don't have to rely on that for all the IE bugs, only the IE7 specific ones.

[Peter1968]

My objective isn't to bash anything - Darin wrote that he'd rather not buy XP/Vista just to use IE 7.0 and me and Brian were telling him (quite rightly) that forking out for one of those two is the only really feasible way to use the browser.

So, no bash intended, but you can't help wondering *why* Microsoft would not make IE 7.0 available for pre-XP flavours of Windows, various Unices and, of course, Mac.

Just a thought.

[Frederiek]

I believe that WinXP doesn't even update the browser to IE7 anymore, you'll need Vista for that. At least, that's how it worked on my virtual machines on Mac.

That's exactly what has always been the problem with Microsoft.

[pandy]

So, no bash intended, but you can't help wondering *why* Microsoft would not make IE 7.0 available for pre-XP flavours of Windows, various Unices and, of course, Mac.

I'd guess because of significant changes in the OS IE is a part of.

So, you didn't tell me what's so bad about BrowserPool? I'm curious about your experiences. The only worry I have had so far is that the free accounts will seize to exist.

[Brian Chandler]

So, no bash intended, but you can't help wondering *why* Microsoft would not make IE 7.0 available for pre-XP flavours of Windows, various Unices and, of course, Mac.

Hard to see how it fits with their business model - but just supposing they reimplemented [right?] this browser-like OS component to run under Linux, what are the chances they would get the bugs to be similar enough to be useful?

[Darin McGrew]

I hate to interrupt the M$ bashing, but a variant of the "borrow a friend's Windows box" approach is to use a Windows box at a public library. That may be the most practical approach for me, given that even my personal site's current design (a rather simple design, IMHO) needed a minor MSIE-specific hack. I don't mind if the design doesn't look as nice in MSIE (which happens to be the current state, with the hack), but I want to avoid MSIE making hash of the page (which was the pre-hack state).

[pandy]

And there's always BrowserPool. Peter's bad experience remains a mystery. It has been good to me and since it's VNC based it's so much more useful than screen caps.
http://browserpool.de

[Dr Z]

I believe that WinXP doesn't even update the browser to IE7 anymore, you'll need Vista for that.

I will beg to differ. I have WinXP (SP2) and I am running IE7.

[Peter1968]

And there's always BrowserPool. Peter's bad experience remains a mystery. It has been good to me and since it's VNC based it's so much more useful than screen caps.
http://browserpool.de

Things may've changed, but when I used Browserpool, I'd get "session expired" or other messages telling me I've used up my freeloading quota for the day.

[jimlongo]

I'd keep the old one around if you're that interested in compatibility.

Dont' you have to worry about all the flavors of IE if you're worried at all. Might it not be a while before IE7 has a bigger marketshare than IE6 or even older?

And what's wrong with MS making money anyway?

[Darin McGrew]

I'd keep the old one around if you're that interested in compatibility.

Well, that is one option. But it feels like remodeling your kitchen, and then keeping the old stove around just to make sure your recipes will still work for any of your friends who are still using old stoves.

Dont' you have to worry about all the flavors of IE if you're worried at all.

At this point, I test with MSIE 6 on Windows ME, and hope that's sufficiently representative of MSIE users.

I can't test with MSIE 5.x any longer, since my tax software upgraded me to MSIE 6 a couple years ago. Besides, its market share is very limited now.

I can't test with MSIE 7, because it won't run on my version of MS Windows. I'm just hoping that it is no more broken than MSIE 6 is.

And I certainly can't test with MSIE on any other version of MS Windows.

Of course, once I upgrade to a Mac and start using a Windows box at the library (or wherever) to test with MSIE, I'll be using whatever version(s) they have available.

And what's wrong with MS making money anyway?

Nothing.

I have nothing against Ford making money either, but wouldn't want to be forced to keep my old Ford around after I've upgraded to a new Chevy.

[jimlongo]

And what's wrong with MS making money anyway?

Nothing.

I have nothing against Ford making money either, but wouldn't want to be forced to keep my old Ford around after I've upgraded to a new Chevy.

Yeah I hear that, especially when you've just upgraded from a Lada to a Lexus.

[Peter1968]

Hey now, those Lada's come with their own tool box.

FWIW, IE 7.0 is a giant leap forward compared to 6. Not really fair to have them on the same page.

[Darin McGrew]

FWIW, IE 7.0 is a giant leap forward compared to 6.

Hmm... Most of the reviews I've read have complained that MSIE 7 isn't really much better than MSIE 6: a few bug fixes here and there, but still substantially behind the standards-oriented browsers.